AHC/WI: Progressive-Socialist Coalition in 1912

Alright, so I've been thinking about something from the 1912 Election, both Theodore Roosevelt and Eugene V. Debs were vying for the presidency in both the Progressive Party and the Socialist Party respectively. The loathing that Debs had for Roosevelt was well known; however, is it at all possible for Roosevelt and Debs to come together as allies and unite their respective parties to present a bigger challenge to both Taft and Wilson? And if it is possible, could they win?
 
No. Because they had a deeply different vision for the future of America. And because Debs and Roosevelt had a pretty mutual despising of one another.
 

Japhy

Banned
Yeah, Roosevelt's Progressiveism was in a large part on preventing Socialism. The man was a Conservative reformer. Debs on the other hand was a Revolutionary Socialist.

An alliance is possible on the grass roots level, and would be possible on the top with completely different men leading both movements, but it wouldn't work with Roosevelt-Debs, or Roosevelt-Benson or La Follette-Debs.
 
Yeah, Roosevelt's Progressiveism was in a large part on preventing Socialism. The man was a Conservative reformer. Debs on the other hand was a Revolutionary Socialist.

An alliance is possible on the grass roots level, and would be possible on the top with completely different men leading both movements, but it wouldn't work with Roosevelt-Debs, or Roosevelt-Benson or La Follette-Debs.

Yeah, it's pretty much impossible in 1912. But in 1920, it's possible if La Follete works with a moderate socialist.
 
Yeah, Roosevelt's Progressiveism was in a large part on preventing Socialism. The man was a Conservative reformer. Debs on the other hand was a Revolutionary Socialist.

An alliance is possible on the grass roots level, and would be possible on the top with completely different men leading both movements, but it wouldn't work with Roosevelt-Debs, or Roosevelt-Benson or La Follette-Debs.

In part the issue is Debs, who almost all respectable american politicians considered as a dangerous subversive who clearly stands against the american way. He's on the same level as Red Emma, and Big Bill Haywood. In order for a socialist progressive coalition you need a member of the Socialist Party right and their "socialism acceptable to meek middle class dentists". LaFollette-Hillquist is a workable alliance, although that would also in large part destroy the appeal of the socialists. Although given how debs didn't run for president he was running for congress, he could well end up a very interesting congressman in this scenario.
 
Yeah, it's pretty much impossible in 1912. But in 1920, it's possible if La Follete works with a moderate socialist.

I think if we're going for a 1920 Coalition, then we have to suggest that the October Revolution failed. Although, LaFollete and Upton Sinclair?
 
I think if we're going for a 1920 Coalition, then we have to suggest that the October Revolution failed. Although, LaFollete and Upton Sinclair?

Really the big issue is that while it might be reasonable, the splits riddling the party in the wake of the October Revolution about whether or not to join the communist international made the party effectively powerless and without much ability to be a worthwhile partner. I mean from the progressive standpoint why work with a group where the moderate leadership they'd be working with is opposed by the majority of the actual party members who want to join the communist international (and thus embrace the comminterns policy of not making coalitions with progressive bourgeois parties).
 
Debs was utterly opposed to any idea that reforms could save capitalism--and even if he were more open to coalition with bourgeois reformists, surely he would have good reason to distrust Roosevelt, whose campaign drew much of its support from big businessmen like George Perkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Walbridge_Perkins who resented Taft's vigorous antitrust enforcement.

And anyway, see my post at https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showpost.php?p=10188170&postcount=8 for some pungent quotes by TR and Debs which will give some idea what each one thought of the other...
 
Top