AHC/WI: OGAS actually developed?

OGAS was an attempt, or more accurately one of a series of attempts, to create an information network similar to the Internet in the Soviet Union. However, the network, which would have been aimed at assisting central economic control, drew the ire of Vasily Garbuzov of the Ministry of Finance, who refused its funding, eventually leading to the project's shutdown in 1972.

What if Garbuzov had not been so jealous about it and had actually authorized funding? What would a fully-developed OGAS look like? What ramifications would it have on the Soviet Union?
 
What if Garbuzov had not been so jealous about it and had actually authorized funding? What would a fully-developed OGAS look like? What ramifications would it have on the Soviet Union?
Unfortunately one of the main problems the Soviets had was 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. When your advancement, or even just maintaining your position, within the system is dependent on meeting centrally set goals it's an incredibly large incentive to game the system or outright cheat. I can remember reading about one of the senior Soviet leaders asking Gorbachev for the real economic figures, not the ones published in public or for most of the government, and effectively being rebuffed.
 
Reminds me of Chile very own atempt at Internet that died with Allende in 1973 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
Maybe the two were related ?

Yeah, I believe Cybersyn was inspired by the various networks the Soviets tried to develop. Unsure though.

Unfortunately one of the main problems the Soviets had was 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. When your advancement, or even just maintaining your position, within the system is dependent on meeting centrally set goals it's an incredibly large incentive to game the system or outright cheat. I can remember reading about one of the senior Soviet leaders asking Gorbachev for the real economic figures, not the ones published in public or for most of the government, and effectively being rebuffed.

For sure, but it's still interesting to think about what OGAS could have provided. Even with problems you mention above, I imagine a unified network like this could have at least given central economic management a bit more efficiency.
 
You'd need true believers in key posts who care more about the country than their own power base. Computers make complex math and other information easily available to the masses and Moscow liked neither premise.
 
I can see it being either a historical curiosity or somehow merged into the internet when the USSR collapses/liberalizes.
 
There was some sort of evolving computer network linking factories and universities there in the 1980s. Not sure how far it got though.
 
You'd need true believers in key posts who care more about the country than their own power base. Computers make complex math and other information easily available to the masses and Moscow liked neither premise.

Electronic communications would make it easier for people to report wreckers and slackers and black marketers and annoying neighbors who are probably enemies of the Revolution somehow...
 
Electronic communications would make it easier for people to report wreckers and slackers and black marketers and annoying neighbors who are probably enemies of the Revolution somehow...

True but one of the greatest barrier to implementation was concern from one of the major departments (Bureau of Statistics?) that widespread information might limit their power and influence. In essence what was a major party assignment could devolve significantly in rank and prestige. A true '(wo)man of the people' might let ideology go ahead of self-interest and still go through with it.
 

iVC

Donor
There was a certain amount of distrust in the 1970s due to mythical 'electronic fascism' concept.
 
OGAS was an attempt, or more accurately one of a series of attempts, to create an information network similar to the Internet in the Soviet Union. However, the network, which would have been aimed at assisting central economic control, drew the ire of Vasily Garbuzov of the Ministry of Finance, who refused its funding, eventually leading to the project's shutdown in 1972.

What if Garbuzov had not been so jealous about it and had actually authorized funding? What would a fully-developed OGAS look like? What ramifications would it have on the Soviet Union?

It wasn't just Garbuzov, though he was one of the big opponents. There was widespread fear that the development of the cybernetic economy would make it easier for the Politburo to shut down departments it decided was obsolete. Or for that matter, that departments would be weakened in negotiations with the bodies that oversaw them if all their information were readily accessible. So the various departments were interested in developing specialist computer systems that were as incompatible as possible with the computers of the other departments as a means of protecting their independence and existence.

As such, the most beneficial effects of the OGAS program being implemented would be that it was able to be implemented, since something would need to happen to enable the center to impose itself over the urges of the bureaucrats to defend their little patches.

Unfortunately one of the main problems the Soviets had was 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. When your advancement, or even just maintaining your position, within the system is dependent on meeting centrally set goals it's an incredibly large incentive to game the system or outright cheat. I can remember reading about one of the senior Soviet leaders asking Gorbachev for the real economic figures, not the ones published in public or for most of the government, and effectively being rebuffed.

The story, as I remember it, is Gorbachev was asking Andropov (who was leader at the time) for the real numbers and being rebuffed.

And one of the reasons why the Soviets were attracted to the cybernetic economy was as a means of taking power away from the people pushing garbage into the information stream. By automating the reporting of information, there'd be less room for fabrication.

Of course, if that works it brings the Soviet planners face to face with the simple fact that the system was not working and the corruption within it was allowing people to fudge their way around the intractable problems. This may cause the Soviet economy to tear itself apart as it tries to reform earlier than OTL or it may result in the central planners being able to target their patches to the economy at where there would be the most benefit for the least cost, allowing the system to improve.

fasquardon
 
It seems like the general consensus is that the reforms necessary to implement OGAS would be game-changing in and of themselves. This makes sense to me, as the reason it wasn't implemented was the same reason the Soviet Union fell. A total opposition to true accountability by the economic planners. Any reform movement that could push OGAS through could push through some other reform that shores up a lot of faults in the Soviet economy.

That said, I'd love to read a TL about a successful OGAS and a more successful planned economy. It would probably have to be written by a real economist, though, to be high quality.
 
That said, I'd love to read a TL about a successful OGAS and a more successful planned economy. It would probably have to be written by a real economist, though, to be high quality.

I could see OGAS getting further if Khrushchev had been more successful (and thus survived long enough to implement it) or if whoever replaced Khrushchev had been as keen on high-tech as he was.

fasquardon
 
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