AHC/WI: Nukes developed before WWII

As the title says. The challenge is to have nuclear weapons be developed and stockpiled before WWII rolls around, preferably by both sides in large numbers. Bonus points if they haven't previously been used in warfare, so they just get thought of as really big bombs/artillery shells/etc. More bonus points if you get useable nuclear artillery for preferably both sides. What would happen then?

Let the discussion commence!
 

GarethC

Donor
Ouch.

OK, so making a uranium bomb is a matter of chemical engineering (at its simplest) - dissolve the uranium in hydrofluoric acid, boil off the uranium hexafluoride, then use a series of gas centrifuges to extract the U-235 hexafluoride, then recover the uranium by passing the hot gas over something more electropotent like sodium. Then you make the Little Boy gun-type bomb, and hey presto! you're an atomic playboy.

The catch is, that's not cheap to do even now, and it doesn't get less expensive in 1933. The cost for Pakistan to develop a bomb was estimated in 1965 to be $150m - that's about $1.1 billion in 2013 money. And that's on the cheap side, because it's following a proven development path using the technological advances of two decades of other people's trials and errors.

The Manhattan Project cost ~$2bn in 1945, or about $1.57bn inflation-adjusted to 1938 - and that's without any additional costs for ancillary technologies or techniques in metallurgy or chemical process engineering that might have been used for Trinity but which were developed as part of separate programmes. It also discounts the cost of any research brought in from Tube Alloys, the UK bomb project, so let's just accept that the figure is probably a bit on the low side.

If that was evenly distributed across six years' development time (and it should not be - it should be front-loaded to reflect the need to acquire sites and construct facilities)... well, if you want to spend $560m in 1933 on your bomb project, you have to consider that the entire federal defence budget (excluding veterans' costs) was $600m. That's more than 90% of the cost of the entire 1933 military.

Now, to be fair, we can say that we'll only go for the uranium weapon, which doesn't need reactors to make plutonium like Manhattan did, just lots of centrifuges and some nasty chemicals. Even so, if we halve the costs, I think it's still an expense that's only affordable if there is a clear and present danger to the Union that demands that the US organize and measure the best of its energies and skills, as JFK later spoke of the Apollo programme.

So, what requires that? Basically, a cold war.

Have a POD that makes WW1 turn into a damp squib, but continue the armament process, and either put the US on the Central Powers side (so they are looking at fighting Britain) or have Mexico there (cf Zimmerman telegram) which is probably better.

That probably requires that A-H and Russia sort out their many and varied problems to become rather richer and more stable. Italy and the Ottoman Empire are tricky and may vacillate between the Entente and CP in the course of the teens and 20s, while Japan may have a small war with Germany that corresponds with its WW1 goals and then start to pull away from Britain as OTL.

So, A-H and Germany are trying like the dickens to modernise the Ottomans and Mexicans, while the French do the same with the Russians, the Italians are champing at the bit to get their hands on an empire (though they're probably not Fascist without the grim casualties of WW1), and the Brits are thinking that now that the Germans are spending less on navies and more on arms to Guadalajara things can settle down a bit as long as they have a really really big fleet.

There won't be a Great Depression, per se, but the 20s won't be a boom either, as so much money goes on military budgets.

OK, so Szilard comes up with the chain reaction in 1933, and things move on more quickly in the Cold War environment - the Admiralty starts ur-Tube Alloys quickly, and the US and Russia gets wind of it within a month, and the French and Austrians have penetrated the Russians, and the Austrians share it with the Germans. Before the year is out, the American, British, Russian, and Central Powers all have uranium bomb projects underway.

It's unlikely that there will be artillery that can fire it - but a stripped-down B-17 probably can. Not recommended for high-threat environments - but in our decades-long cold war ATL, strategic bombing will come to prominence as the consequences of the bomb programmes are considered, and certainly a heavy airframe capable of delivery can be developed by all the major powers at the time.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
It would be very hard to develop without butterflying away WW2. Just to take a few what if to explain. What if in late 1938, the UK public test the weapon, and has 10 operational by late 1939. Hitler probably backs down on Poland. Or take the reverse. In mid 1938, Germany tests and is believed to have 10 "city busters" by mid 1939. Hitler probably gets what he wants in Poland.

Now the main issue to the POD is lack of funding in the interwar years, due to economic devastation in WW1. So the easiest POD involve either no WW1, or a shorter, softer WW1. So say in winter of 1915/16, Wilson the Great Peace maker brokers a deal to end the war, status quo front lines. Then you have the budget to fund a super weapon and a desire for a super weapon once the precursor techs are invented.

If you want war to drag on til about OTL ending, you need a stronger Germany to drive the others. I guess you could have some strange POD where in the ToV Germany is allowed to keep prewar borders in east plus Austria and the Czech areas. And no reparations. I guess it would be an technical Entente win cover a peace from exhaustion.

Now to cost scale. Germany army budget was 500 million USD prewar. Navy was 80 million USD prewar. Manhattan project amortized over 10 years is near 100 million USD per year. (I have seen lower numbers than he is using). But we did an emergency project that maximized cost. It is probably 10 to 20% of this without massive cost overruns, so we are looking at say 20 million USD per year. Very doable if we have the basic R&D done.

So ok, you have fixed funding with some POD. Now to move up tech, since it is unlikely anyone starts build me superweapon X program without idea what it would be. The key is element 94. It was possibly seen in 1933 in Italy, so you could move it up by a near decade with POD here. With modest funding by all sides and some spying (say 2-5 million USD per year), you could have the basic physics worked out by all sides and working research reactors (plutonium piles) by 1937 for all sides. You get crash funding after Munich, and the weapons are coming on line during the war. It is a lot easier to scale up small research reactor and separation plant than to do science, do test reactor, then scale up for production.

Now the mass spectometer is discovered in 1933, so you can have a POD moving plutonium back to as early as 1918. Now you don't get WW2 as OTL, but you do get nukes by 1939. So just for one scenario. In mid-1920's, German scientist work out plutonium exists and how much energy it releases. Army classifies and starts work in secret, since this is not covered by ToV. By time of loosening of ToV, it is ready to begin production. You can now have you Nazi atomic army. And if spies for others plus belief in the superweapon, all can have them.
 
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