AHC/WI: More Stable Tetrarchy

What could Diocletian change with his tetrarchy to make it more stable? What can he do structurally and what can he do as far as who he chooses to govern with him and become the new Caesars?


Something i thought about was picking someone more like himself instead of Maximian to become his co-Augustus. When he retires, this co Augustus replaces him as senior Augustus, who can keep everyone in line.

Another thing I though about was him elevating Constantine and Maxentius as the new Caesars upon his retirement. They were the sons of Constantius and Maxinian so Constantius would not feel like he's backed into a corner by Gallerius and his strong supporters who Diocletian appointed as co-Caesars. Having Macimian die shortly after abdicating would be good too.
 
short-to medium term - don't force Maximian to retire, let him be senior augustus. Maximian didn't really want to retire in the first place and he and his son would cause real trouble for the empire. also, stop fixing prices, stop restricting social mobility, reform the currency ala Constantine

long term - nothing. it's a lost cause. good riddance to bad rubbish
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Rather than two co-equal Augustus and two co-equal Caesars, federal system with one leader balanced with many regional leaders might work better, Holy Roman Empire style ? one central Augustus and one hereditary Caesars in every diocese ? with all the Caesars elect Augustus among themselves when old Augustus retire/die.
 
short-to medium term - don't force Maximian to retire, let him be senior augustus. Maximian didn't really want to retire in the first place and he and his son would cause real trouble for the empire. also, stop fixing prices, stop restricting social mobility, reform the currency ala Constantine

long term - nothing. it's a lost cause. good riddance to bad rubbish

I'm not convinced Maximiam was the right man to be the head Augustus. He just didn't have the same qualities Diocletian had imo.

What do you think of having Constantine and Maxentius elevated as the two Caesar's instead of Severus and Maximinus Dia?
 
What could Diocletian change with his tetrarchy to make it more stable? What can he do structurally and what can he do as far as who he chooses to govern with him and become the new Caesars?


Something i thought about was picking someone more like himself instead of Maximian to become his co-Augustus. When he retires, this co Augustus replaces him as senior Augustus, who can keep everyone in line.

Another thing I though about was him elevating Constantine and Maxentius as the new Caesars upon his retirement. They were the sons of Constantius and Maxinian so Constantius would not feel like he's backed into a corner by Gallerius and his strong supporters who Diocletian appointed as co-Caesars. Having Macimian die shortly after abdicating would be good too.

We've had this conversation before. As I said before " In truth it was a horrible system and its a miracle it lasted as long as it did. I mean yes on paper its a fairly good idea, having an Emperor in each section of the Empire to be on hand to respond to threats, but it doesn't really work that way. You are essentially dividing the empire into four mini empires and eventually one of those Emperors is going to want the whole pie, so to speak. If anything it ENCOURAGES infighting. The entire system fell apart after Diocletian's retirement, so that says something about the system. The ONLY and I mean ONLY way it could survive for any length of time after Diocletian would be if there's one or two strong Emperors and the other three or two are weak and unambitious. The problem is any successful general is going to be ambitious so the whole thing is a quagmire. A successful general is going to want the whole thing eventually and a non-successful general will probably be killed by either the other emperors or his own soldiers. The system just couldn't last."
 
We've had this conversation before. As I said before " In truth it was a horrible system and its a miracle it lasted as long as it did. I mean yes on paper its a fairly good idea, having an Emperor in each section of the Empire to be on hand to respond to threats, but it doesn't really work that way. You are essentially dividing the empire into four mini empires and eventually one of those Emperors is going to want the whole pie, so to speak. If anything it ENCOURAGES infighting. The entire system fell apart after Diocletian's retirement, so that says something about the system. The ONLY and I mean ONLY way it could survive for any length of time after Diocletian would be if there's one or two strong Emperors and the other three or two are weak and unambitious. The problem is any successful general is going to be ambitious so the whole thing is a quagmire. A successful general is going to want the whole thing eventually and a non-successful general will probably be killed by either the other emperors or his own soldiers. The system just couldn't last."

I agree the tetrarchy couldn't last very long but to say it's a miracle it lasted 2 years after Diocletian is really exaggerating. Everyone knew it would fall apart at some point, probably even Diocletian himself but, nobody expected it to fall apart so quickly.
 
I agree the tetrarchy couldn't last very long but to say it's a miracle it lasted 2 years after Diocletian is really exaggerating. Everyone knew it would fall apart at some point, probably even Diocletian himself but, nobody expected it to fall apart so quickly.

Well Diocletian did cut out the sons of the two senior Augustus's from the succession. With that he practically guaranteed a revolt. Maybe if he allows Constantine and Maxentius to become Caesars the system would stay in place longer.
 
Well Diocletian did cut out the sons of the two senior Augustus's from the succession. With that he practically guaranteed a revolt. Maybe if he allows Constantine and Maxentius to become Caesars the system would stay in place longer.

That was what I was suggesting. Not having Constantius die shortly after becoming Augustus, and having Gallerius not allow Constantine to go serve with his father would help a lot too.
 
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