AHC/WI: Large-scale ethnic Russian immigration to the U.S.

CaliGuy

Banned
How exactly do you get large numbers of ethnic Russians to immigrate to the U.S. in the 19th century? After all, a lot of Germans, English, Irish, and--slightly later on--Italians and Jews immigrated to the U.S. in the 19th century. However, ethnic Russians never immigrated to the U.S. en masse during this time (with the main immigrants to the U.S. from Russia likely being minorities--specifically Jews, Volga Germans, et cetera).

Also, what would the effects of having a large ethnic Russian population starting from the 19th century be in the U.S.? Indeed, where exactly would ethnic Russians have settled in the U.S. and how exactly would they have affected the culture of the areas where they settled in?

In addition to this, would these Russians have fully assimilated and Americanized over the years (like most of the Germans in the U.S. did) or would they have kept some traces of their ancestral origin, heritage, and culture (like many of the Irish and Italians did)?
 
Many ethnic Russians were simply too poor to emigrate, serfdom had only been ended in 1861 and you would need at least 2 generations of Stable History for Russia to have that Middle class that would emigrate. A possibility is an earlier ending of Serfdom giving Russia a head start compared to OTL
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Many ethnic Russians were simply too poor to emigrate, serfdom had only been ended in 1861 and you would need at least 2 generations of Stable History for Russia to have that Middle class that would emigrate. A possibility is an earlier ending of Serfdom giving Russia a head start compared to OTL
How exactly do you get Russia to abolish serfdom earlier, though?

Also, does this mean that, without Bolshevism, ethnic Russians would have become wealthy enough to immigrate to the U.S. en masse in the mid-20th century or so?
 
Russians didn't emigrate to the US because the Russians had a large amount of their own land to settle. There was no need to go overseas. The Russians also had deep attachments to the land and community that they wouldn't break. Even the Revolution of 1917 didn't see large scale Russian emigration. What little emigration there was from the Russian Empire was largely Jews and Poles.

There are ways to get Russians to emigrate but on a large scale its going to be real hard. The Orthodox Church also limits the Russian desire to emigrate. They were strongly attached to it and emigration to an area without an Orthodox church would be very limited. Given the limited Orthodox presence in America, that would severely restrict Russian emigration. The Russians who did come to America did so in large groups. I lived by a Russian American community. They only agreed to come and work in the mines when the mine built an Orthodox Church. A small example but real

Even after the 1917 revolution, very few ethnic Russians emigrated
 
Note that LOTS of people emigrated from Russia to Canada in the early 20th century. Of course, 1) 'lots' for Canada is a smaller number than 'lots' for the US, 2) few were standard, Orthodox (Great) Russians - Ukrainians, Mennonites, German Catholics, especially, then heterodox groups like Doukhobors
 
Take into account the fact that the English and Germans were middle-class,urbanized,mostly literate Europeans,using a Latin alphabet and better identifing themselves with the Anglo-German American settlers.The Russians were poor,mostly illiterate peasents,using the Cyrillic alphabet,following a different branch of Christianity and identifing more with themselves than with Europe and even less with the United States.The Irish and,to a lesser extent,the Italians were an exception,since they were also mostly poor, Catholic peasents,however they had more contact with the United States,especially the Irish,by their acces to the Atlantic.In spite of this,however, they assimilated harder and were victims to stereotypes,again,especially the Irish.
I have a hard time seeing ships in Murmansk and Archangelsk harbours crowded with immigrants heading for the US.Immigrating to the Western World simply wasn't taken into account for escaping poverty,especially since your country had such a large land in which to start a new life.
Let's say,however,that large scale immigration somehow happens.The Russians would face even worse stereotypes than the Irish for being "drunk,foreign beasts".You should expect slow integration,probably fastened by the Cold War,when they could be suspected of "serving foreign interests",similar to the Germans during the two world wars.Even today I would expect them to be seen as distinct from the rest of the ethnic groups in America and as "Putins".Though I have to say that it would be cool to see a Russian Minnesota.
 
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Note that LOTS of people emigrated from Russia to Canada in the early 20th century. Of course, 1) 'lots' for Canada is a smaller number than 'lots' for the US, 2) few were standard, Orthodox (Great) Russians - Ukrainians, Mennonites, German Catholics, especially, then heterodox groups like Doukhobors

I take it OP has never been to Coney Island
 
How exactly do you get Russia to abolish serfdom earlier, though?

Also, does this mean that, without Bolshevism, ethnic Russians would have become wealthy enough to immigrate to the U.S. en masse in the mid-20th century or so?
Maybe a more liberal Alexander ?
 
Which Alexander?

Also, Tsarist Russia didn't prevent people from emigrating, did it?

Russians were free to travel abroad and many did. They just didn't emigrate especially from the Great Russians. Abolishing serfdom didn't matter as emigration didn't rise afterwards either

There were internal travel restrictions prior to the 1905 revolution- a peasant couldn't leave his village without permission from the village. It was a means of preventing draft dodgers, deadbeats, criminals and the sort from ducking their responsibilities. It would be rare for the commune to deny permission except in those circumstances.

Even when the rules were relaxed the Russians didn't leave. The only people to do so were Jews and Poles and most of the Poles were Jews
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Russians were free to travel abroad and many did. They just didn't emigrate especially from the Great Russians. Abolishing serfdom didn't matter as emigration didn't rise afterwards either

There were internal travel restrictions prior to the 1905 revolution- a peasant couldn't leave his village without permission from the village. It was a means of preventing draft dodgers, deadbeats, criminals and the sort from ducking their responsibilities. It would be rare for the commune to deny permission except in those circumstances.

OK; understood.

Also, did the Russian Provisional Government abolish these village restrictions?

Even when the rules were relaxed the Russians didn't leave. The only people to do so were Jews and Poles and most of the Poles were Jews

You forgot to mention Finns and Lithuanians here.
 
OK; understood.

Also, did the Russian Provisional Government abolish these village restrictions?



You forgot to mention Finns and Lithuanians here.

My Russian history pretty much ends with the Empire. The Provisional government is a weak short lived phenomenon I found boring As for Lithuanians and Finns, Finland was its own country with its own laws. They were a very small part of the Empire I don't know if they emigrated in large numbers or not. The Lithuanians who migrate are also almost exclusively Jews. The Russians didn't use the term much. Sometimes, people are listed as "Lithuanians" or "Poles" or "Jews". When it comes to emmigration, they are usually the same thing.

Total Russian travel abroad was very small- only about 250-500,000 a year. Most of these were short term trips. A lot are Poles working on Prussian estates during the harvest

The internal passport system wasn't very stringent. It really was used by the villages to make sure people met their obligations. Over 6 million were issued in 1903. After 1905, they were pretty much issued on demand unless you were of draft age, owed money or taxes or were a wanted criminal
 
As for Lithuanians and Finns, Finland was its own country with its own laws. They were a very small part of the Empire I don't know if they emigrated in large numbers or not.

Finns certainly emigrated in significant numbers. Between 1821 and 1929, c. 350 000 Finns moved to North America, temporarily or permanently. Comparatively, that is about 13% of the Finnish Grand Duchy's population as it stood in the year 1900.

The areas with strongest emigration:

emi3.jpg
 
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