AHC/WI : Indian cotton in Al-Andalus

Al-Andalus have a production of cotton since the middle-ages, but it was the Gossypium herbaceum, native of Arabia and Syria and suffers from the concurrence of Gossypium arboreum aka the indian cotton.

Indeed, the herbaceum delivers less fibers and with less quality (needing an harsher carding, removing an important part of cotton).

How Al-Andalus (most likely Grenada) could have beneficied of Indian cotton?
Maybe by trade, but it would need a direct one (by circosailing Africa, or by Islamic lands?) and critically the presence of a scholar able to see the differences of the two variants and decided to 1) take seeds, 2)maybe take indian peasants to learn their techniques 3)The support of the state.

For the consequences, if the acclimatation works, maybe Grenada could maintain a certain independece, being able to pay large tributes to Castille, and thanks to its trade of cotton in Europe and became anew a major place for mediterranean trade, not exclusive to cotton.
Of course, it would make Grenada an even more good target for annexion with a strong Castille, or in the absence of it, from an Aragon decided to keep control of mediterranean trade.
 
If it's Al-Andalus, it's likely to be via the Sahara route. I suppose some trader might have Indian servants/slaves but I think it's unlikely and that's your biggest problem as you'll lack the Indian techniques.

It's interesting to see what a good cotton industry in Granada would do to wool-based Castile if it was absorbed. From what I understand, the big difference is that where wool resists water, cotton absorbs it making it handy in hot weather to cool your body compared to even linen. I do not even want to imagine what it would feel like to wear wool in a Mediterranean summer! However is it more or less cost effective to make than wool?

ED: What are your sources on the techniques and viability of Indian cotton in Iberia? In my TL the desert gear is mostly cotton but it's not a common fabric for the reasons your articulated.
 
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If it's Al-Andalus, it's likely to be via the Sahara route.
Doesn't that suppose that African road needs to be more stable, as the transafrican road is mainly a maghreb and machrek one?
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Besides, maybe an alternate tradeway could be used, but i don't know any possible one, maybe searching here?

I suppose some trader might have Indian servants/slaves but I think it's unlikely and that's your biggest problem as you'll lack the Indian techniques.
Well, we have a medieval precedent : Lionheart and Philip Augustus hired muslim engineers for teach muslims techniques to europeans. Maybe andalusian can do the same with Indians? But, still, the distance is an issue.

It's interesting to see what a good cotton industry in Granada would do to wool-based Castile if it was absorbed. From what I understand, the big difference is that where wool resists water, cotton absorbs it making it handy in hot weather to cool your body compared to even linen. I do not even want to imagine what it would feel like to wear wool in a Mediterranean summer! However is it more or less cost effective to make than wool?
Maybe the concurrence of grenadine cotton would push the christian to improve the wool production, eventually playing the role of England, with Languedoc in the role of Flanders?
 
Many of us arent fiber arts experts. I certainly dont know how much difference different strains / species would make. Also, would an earlier invention of the cotton gin make a bigger difference than changing varieties? Can you invent a gin hundreds of years early?
 
Many of us arent fiber arts experts.
This is innaceptable!

I certainly dont know how much difference different strains / species would make.
Basically, the indian coton have more fibers, more workable and sweet ones.
The cotton in Spain suffered greatly from the comparison.

Also, would an earlier invention of the cotton gin make a bigger difference than changing varieties? Can you invent a gin hundreds of years early?
Technically, they were earlier cotton gins...in India. It would be far less techno-bumpy to "import" both indian cotton and indian cotton-gin-like.
 
Having 'cheap' cotton would make some difference, especcially in the south, and might change the economy of soutthern spain. Otoh, i dont think it will be cheap enough for britain to abandon linen, for innstance.
 
One problem is that growing cotton is extremely hard on soils. Even if Al-Andalus managed to acquire and grow Indian cotton, how much land is available for expansion as the original cotton fields wear out? What are the sources of labor for the labor-intensive jobs of cultivating, picking and processing cotton? Simply importing Indian cotton seeds is only the beginning.
 
This is innaceptable!
Mrs. MNP actually is a big time fiber arts aficionado, but as she frustratingly points out to me when I ask, her interests lay in the present and not the history of those crafts. I actually am VERY interested in your suggestion of Languedoc being like Flanders. What makes you say that? Does it have the natural resources to make lots of fabric?
 
Having 'cheap' cotton would make some difference, especcially in the south, and might change the economy of soutthern spain. Otoh, i dont think it will be cheap enough for britain to abandon linen, for innstance.

One problem is that growing cotton is extremely hard on soils. Even if Al-Andalus managed to acquire and grow Indian cotton, how much land is available for expansion as the original cotton fields wear out? What are the sources of labor for the labor-intensive jobs of cultivating, picking and processing cotton? Simply importing Indian cotton seeds is only the beginning.

Indeed, but with a good commercial couverture for investment, Al-Andalus lands could have enough with the Algrave's lands (that cover quite the needs of cotton culture with rain between november and March, sunny sky the rest of time.
Don't forget that Al-Andalus is the major region, with Sicilia, of cotton production in Europe.
If Al-Andalus manage to keep the "good lands" for Indian cotton, having a better production together with arabic seeds, it would be a good start.

For information
[URL="http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cibas/ciba64.html" said:
This website[/URL]]As a result of such detailed study, cotton growing in Spain soon began to flourish, and maintained its position for many centuries. As late as the eighteenth century the English traveller Richard Twiss described the cotton fields on either side of the road from Cordova to Ecija with the yellow and red blossoms of the plants, and he wrote with admiration of the rich crop yielded every year by the plantations. These cotton plantations contributed at an early date to the fame of the workshops of Granada. When Abderrahman III (912 to 961) began to restore the prosperity of the country after the ravages of war, and to revive industries which had declined ever since the period of Roman occupation, Arabs and Moors were commissioned to instruct the natives in the various trades. One craft in which they excelled was leather working, another was weaving, which they practised with equal skill in silk, flax, hemp, and cotton. In the fourteenth century cotton cloth was made in Granada which was used as a dress material, and which in the opinion of Ibn Alchabid, who wrote a history of Granada, at that time was superior in softness, purity of material, and in beauty to the fabrics of Syria. The dye used in dyeing this material was madder.

Al-Andalus have the soils, the infrastructure to support indian seeds-based reconversion.

Mrs. MNP actually is a big time fiber arts aficionado, but as she frustratingly points out to me when I ask, her interests lay in the present and not the history of those crafts. I actually am VERY interested in your suggestion of Languedoc being like Flanders. What makes you say that? Does it have the natural resources to make lots of fabric?

For christian side, same site.

In Christian Catalonia, too, cotton weaving must have been established at an early date. Already in the thirteenth century the "fustaneros", the weavers of fustian, were organized in a guild, and old street names show to this day where they carried on their trade. In some towns the weavers were obliged to transfer their activities to the outskirts of the town, as the neighbours complained to the municipal authorities of the annoyance caused to them by the proximity of the workshops. Fourteenth century laws not only inform us that the sale of fustian was under official supervision, we also learn something of the regulations which the dyers of these fabrics had to observe. Records of the activities of the fustaneros take us down to the fifteenth century; for the most part these records are regulations for the sale of pure cotton or mixed fabrics and also penalties for bad work. It would appear that this branch of the Spanish textile crafts did not survive the fifteenth century; it seems to have been replaced by the silk industry which began to prosper greatly about that time.
For Mrs.MNP, it is possible to have an hybrid between indian and arabic cotton, and it is possible to have then a plant with the softness of indian and the more "rustic" needs of the arabic?

For Languedoc (Mmm, if you're interested to, i would better copyright it for EaH sooner than i tought first :D), well if Al-Andalus manage to improve its production, there's two option : or export it to Italy by sea with the concurrence of Tunisian and Egyptian cotton, or to export it in Catalonia and Languedoc, improving the pre-industrial manufacturing production here. As the catalan and provencal harbours were quite active in Mediterranean sea (critically with a non-sealed one), it's not imlausible to me that we would have a land arch between Valencia and Marsèlha, wool and silk based and with a better commercial role than OTL, maybe even concurrencing Italy.
 
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