AHC/WI: Hungarian dominated Balkans and the Byzantine Empire

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Albert.Nik, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Albert.Nik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    After the late Roman Empire in the Early middle ages,a promising peoples were beginning to take shape from an amalgamation of ethnicities. Scythian,Uralic,Roman,Celtic,Turkic,Caucasian,etc components have gone into the mix to make this promising peoples known and loved today as Hungarians or Magyars.
    In this timeline,the Hungary is a lot bigger and they dominate whole Balkans single handed and even soon become a ruling class in the Byzantine Empire eventually settling in good numbers in Anatolia and Levant. They convert to a religion called Hungarian Byzantine Catholic and act as the eastern allies of the German HRE. How do you think these developments would lead to further developments in the Middle ages? The starting of this empire POD could be around 500-600 CE. How would the later Middle East look like? How would Christian World look like? How would Europe and Russia look like? Tell me your PODs and ideas.
     
  2. The Professor Pontifex Collegii Vexillographiariorum

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    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Collegium Vexillarum
    Do you really have to bring ethnicity into every OP?
    Are you mixing up the Hungarians with the Bulgarians here?
    Here's a map showing raids and maximum extent of the Magyar invasion:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_invasions_of_Europe#/media/File:Kalandozasok.jpg
    Note there are fewer south into the Balkans than west into central Europe.
     
  3. Albert.Nik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    I am interested in history of Europe and all its various populations and the ancient related peoples to Europeans too.
    Hungarians AFAIK,came with many other peoples like Huns,Turks,Finno-Ugric(obvious),Scythians(lots),Residual Romans in Pannonia,Caucasians,Volga peoples,etc. In this timeline,I would have them bigger and have a dynasty and settlement in the Byzantine is what I meant.
     
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  4. The Professor Pontifex Collegii Vexillographiariorum

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
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    Collegium Vexillarum
    Yeah, but you don't need to bring it in when irrelevant to the OP. It makes you look a little obsessed with "race".
    I'd avoid having settle of the periphery of the Balkans then. Hence a Bulgarian route.
     
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  5. Marko Well-Known Member

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    Nov 17, 2010
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    Zagreb, Hrvatska/Croatia
    Due to where the core of the Hungarian lands were located, the geography of the area in the time period as well as population distribution it is highly unlikely to create a permanent state centred on the Panonnian basin which would also dominate the whole of balkans. Even out time line hungarian kingdom had considerable difficulties managing their possessions along the eastern adriatic and within the dinaric alps. Much of it being influenced by them being a language isolate even though the latin was shared by both magyar, german and slavic speaking nobility.

    If we look to the Magyar migration into PB as a PoD it is even less likely. The existence of a culturally and lingusitically Magyar Hungary is already in OTL a fascinating thing. The materials we currently possess point out towards a predominantly militarised group with few civilians which settled the PB mixing with with the diverse population already existing there (but one that was heavily slavicised by the time of the Magyar settlement). What is of not that is that recent studies point out that initial Magyar settlements converged on areas where we can trace remnants of politically Frankicised political Avars from several decades prior. Pointing out that settlement happened in areas of highest political and economical development due to Frankish influence. Whether there was any cultural recognition between the Avar descended populations encountered by the Magyars is unknown.

    Now in my opinion the best chance for success for Hungary to achieve what OP asks is for the Magyars to go down the Bulgarian route by becoming linguistically slavic in the decades following their settlement though that would probably require a different location of their main early settlement.
     
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  6. Tibi088 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    We also have evidence that prior to the mongol invasion there existed magyars who remained in the east. See Friar Julian. So if we have a POD that bring this extra populace into the Carpathian basin as well - either together with the rest or as a later addition - that too might influence things.