AHC/WI Have ottoman like turkic muslim dynasty conquer european Russia.

With any POD you want have an altOttomans conquer roughly the are of european russia and hold there until the early modern period. Doesnt need to be tatars or bolghar bulgarians, just need to be turkic and muslims. Bonus points if it leads to a serbocroatian like division of eastern slavic peoples: catholic east slavs historivally dominated by Poland or Lithuania (Ruthenians as croats, and Poland Lithuania as Austro-Hungary), east slavic orthodox Rus (so vanilla russians as altserbians) and of course a muslim east slavic poeple as alt Bosniaks. Maybe continue with exagerated paralelism and have the eurasian steppes become an anatolian equivalent: sparcely populated asiatic lands inhabitated by muslim turkic people but neglected by the europe centered dynasty.
 
Were the tatats ever persianated (in terms of government and court culture) like the oghuz turks?

Less so than the Oghuz (The Seljuk influnce that came into Anatolia via the court down in Persianized regions certainly helped), but there's a possability of the Horde getting more of a cultural influx from the south in a variety of ways. Off the top of my head, an initial base further down in Astrakhan with the Arel Sea a bigger basin for cultural spread and trade could result in the emergance of a more Persian capital and thus emerging noble class which could develop through the Hoarde. Have feircer infighting between the Russian City-States and then have them invite in Tartar warbands to get an edge in conflicts (the classical route of getting a foot in the door population wise) and have them develop landownership dominance by being "paid" in territory from the defeated party, and I could see the region Tartarizing (with likely a maternal admixture of Slavic blood) to the point of a local strong man able to seize control of one of the cities and rising to preminance as the Horde proper fades; first as "High Prince" and skimming off the top like the Muscovites did from the tribute and later breaking off and absorbing the splinter Khanates into his Empire
 

krieger

Banned
With any POD you want have an altOttomans conquer roughly the are of european russia and hold there until the early modern period. Doesnt need to be tatars or bolghar bulgarians, just need to be turkic and muslims. Bonus points if it leads to a serbocroatian like division of eastern slavic peoples: catholic east slavs historivally dominated by Poland or Lithuania (Ruthenians as croats, and Poland Lithuania as Austro-Hungary), east slavic orthodox Rus (so vanilla russians as altserbians) and of course a muslim east slavic poeple as alt Bosniaks. Maybe continue with exagerated paralelism and have the eurasian steppes become an anatolian equivalent: sparcely populated asiatic lands inhabitated by muslim turkic people but neglected by the europe centered dynasty.

It wouldn't work (when it comes to the part of catholic Eastern Slavs being a third East Slavic nation). It is because every Ruthenian who converted to a Roman Catholicism was quickly assimilated to a Polish nation. So you wouldn't have any Eastern Slavs left in this scenario of mass religious conversion on so-called "Eastern Borderlands" - they'd become a straight up Western Slavs (Poles). And only chance of Ottoman-esque dynasty being established is Golden Horde conquering "Zalesie" (non-Lithuanian Ruthenia), maybe with Tokhamtish being more succesful. And it could lead to a Jagiellon survival, because Alexander Jagiellon wouldn't marry an Islamic princess ever @Jan Olbracht
 
More successful Tokhtamysh would create lots of butterflies long before Alexander Jagiellon.

Ottomans had much larger and more populous powerbase than Volga Valley. I doubt their success could be repeated in such envirinment.
 

krieger

Banned
More successful Tokhtamysh would create lots of butterflies long before Alexander Jagiellon.

Ottomans had much larger and more populous powerbase than Volga Valley. I doubt their success could be repeated in such envirinment.

But this butterflies would be more visible on Middle East than in Russia. And there were examples on nations with smaller (much smaller) powerbases conquering nations with larger - for example Mongols conquered China (and difference between "Russia" and Volga Valley wasn't THAT big), so success isn't anywhere close to ASB.
 
With any POD you want have an altOttomans conquer roughly the are of european russia and hold there until the early modern period. Doesnt need to be tatars or bolghar bulgarians, just need to be turkic and muslims. Bonus points if it leads to a serbocroatian like division of eastern slavic peoples: catholic east slavs historivally dominated by Poland or Lithuania (Ruthenians as croats, and Poland Lithuania as Austro-Hungary), east slavic orthodox Rus (so vanilla russians as altserbians) and of course a muslim east slavic poeple as alt Bosniaks. Maybe continue with exagerated paralelism and have the eurasian steppes become an anatolian equivalent: sparcely populated asiatic lands inhabitated by muslim turkic people but neglected by the europe centered dynasty.
What If their East Slavic subjects become turkified aswell ? The Turkic Tartar Identity could be transfered to the subjects ?
 
What If their East Slavic subjects become turkified aswell ? The Turkic Tartar Identity could be transfered to the subjects ?
I guess to a good portion of them this would happen, but I wonder if still you could end up with a separated bosniak equivalent that maintains a slavic lenguage and a regional identity.
 
Do the Tartars have a large enough power/population to conquer and hold the Russian Principalities rather then simply just raid the territory?
 
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