Ellis MacVey
Donor
How could France come to be ruled by the Habsburgs and what would Hapsburg France look like?
AHC/WI: Habsburg France
- Thread starter Ellis MacVey
- Start date
You would need a massive civil war and a lot of dead princes. By the time the Habsburgs were doing there thing France had already instituted Salic Law meaning that the only way another house could legally inherit the thrown is a complete extinction of the House of Capet. Now a large enough conflict such as the French Wars of Religion could herald a change in succession laws but it is not very likely as you would have every Capet relative fighting against it and have no grounds to be considered legitimate.
Louis XIV was half Hapsburg and married to a Hapsburg. Have any of his sons survive and you get 75% Hapsburg on the French throne.
Bout to get real technical here but wouldn’t Le Grand Dauphin be half Habsburg, seeing as two of his four grandparents were Habsburgs?
I think a 75% Habsburg king is the best that you can get in France because others on this thread are right, Salic law is definitely a thing by the time the Habsburgs are on the scene in any meaningful way.
When was salic law definitively established as a thing, vs what is the earliest that the Habsburgs could have tried to pull off a Habsburg on France vs a French King paranoid enough to result in a lot of dead princes. Maybe along with devastating internal conflict.
Damn near impossible all of these things happening at the same moment in time, but hey, stranger things have happened yet.
The precedent was set turning the Hundred Years' War, and then reaffirmed after the French Wars of Religion. The problem is once the precedent was set, even if it was possible to change, every French prince with a chance for succession is going to do everything they could to prevent a change it that tradition. So in effect you would still need an extinction of the House of Capet.
I think the only two options are
A) A complete extinction of the Capet dynasty which would force them to look to the nearest cognatic heir, which could be a Habsburg
B) During the French Wars of Religion, Philip II's daughter by Elisabeth de Valois was considered as a catholic heir instead of OTL Henri IV, after the murder of her brother, Henri III. If perhaps she was born as a male (let's call him Philip), then it might be possible that he could succeed as Philip VII of France, but it would still be a hard sale, and only possible if all other candidates were dead or protestant
A) A complete extinction of the Capet dynasty which would force them to look to the nearest cognatic heir, which could be a Habsburg
B) During the French Wars of Religion, Philip II's daughter by Elisabeth de Valois was considered as a catholic heir instead of OTL Henri IV, after the murder of her brother, Henri III. If perhaps she was born as a male (let's call him Philip), then it might be possible that he could succeed as Philip VII of France, but it would still be a hard sale, and only possible if all other candidates were dead or protestant
Unfortunately for the Habsburgs, even if all the legitimate Capet branches are extinct the illegitimate branchs would actually be strong competition for them.
AFAIK Matrilineal marriages aren’t really a thing. 99% of the time, offspring take the male name. Even in the rare cases where it did happen, it’s usually more of a merger than a complete dominance of the female’s name. For instance, Male Lorraine married to Female Habsburg became von Habsburg-Lorraine. But that is an uncommon occurrence.
Louis XIV was 50% Hapsburg (LXIII + Anne of Austria) and married a Hapsburg. So his legal children are 75% Hapsburgs.
Right but his wife was only 50% Habsburg herself. So their children would also be 50% Habsburg. Idk I guess my main point here is that you could easily get a French king with more Habsburg ancestry than an otl son of Louis XIV and Maria Theresa.
De facto sure. But de jure they are still 0% Habsburg. Genealogically Habsburg ancestry isn't a challenge at all.
Of course, de jure the Bourbons were the “Bourbons” as long as the males fit the definition. In that sense they were more restrictive that the Hapsburgs or Romanovs who retained the family name even by the female lines.
The chance for a complete replacement of a dynasty did exist (and this happened more than once) but change it to Hapsburgs is extremely unlikely (or unrealistic).