AHC/WI Greater European Turkey?

[EnvarKadri]

Could the decline and collapse of the ottoman empire leave a bigger territory for the Turkish Republic? The one I consider more posible are the kurdish mayority northern Irak and Batumi (majority muslim at the time), but how could they keep eastern Rumelia or the aegean islands and cyprus? The regions of eastern rumelia show on map had a substancial muslim minority or even majority in some pockets, but still majority christian with hostile irredentist states on its frontiers, the same with the islands tough Crete muslim/christian ratio was almost 50/50.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

The Collapse needs to be different to have such borders.

- Different Balkan Wars (for Thrace)
- Russia still collapses
- Britain agrees with Mudros

Afterwards it depends on diplomacy. Hatay was returned in 1938. In this case parts of Syria may return later.

The Caucasus is tricky though. As soon as Russia becomed stronger, they will demand the lands of former Russian Caucasus. But of they aren't finished with the Civil War then there is even a chance of Azerbaijan joining.

 

[EnvarKadri]

The Collapse needs to be different to have such borders.

- Different Balkan Wars (for Thrace)
- Russia still collapses
- Britain agrees with Mudros

Afterwards it depends on diplomacy. Hatay was returned in 1938. In this case parts of Syria may return later.

The Caucasus is tricky though. As soon as Russia becomed stronger, they will demand the lands of former Russian Caucasus. But of they aren't finished with the Civil War then there is even a chance of Azerbaijan joining.

A tml of the USSR without azeri oil would be interesting, but what happens with eastern rumelia population? Population exchanges like otl but the greeks and bulgarians are expell and the balkan muslims get resettle in greater thrace rather than anatolia?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

A tml of the USSR without azeri oil would be interesting, but what happens with eastern rumelia population? Population exchanges like otl but the greeks and bulgarians are expell and the balkan muslims get resettle in greater thrace rather than anatolia?

A USSR without Azerbaijan is either finished with the Civil war in 1940 or it does not exists. Oil is important for them. I don't see them stopping to get Azerbaijan. Stalin even bluffed to get Kars. I don't think the USSR will let Azerbaijan go so easily and risk war with Turkey. But it is interesting to see how the Soviets will try to use their Tank Armies without oil.

Ehhh... depends on. An exchange happened with Greece. It may happen with Bulgaria if both Bulgaria and Turkey are at war in the 1920s in which the Bulgarians lose some Southern Parts. The Muslims are deported, the remainder of Bulgarian Christians are sent to Bulgaria. But it is likely that they get settled in Thrace. Thrace is except for Istanbul... Kinda underpopulated.

 

[Byzantine fanatic]

there is even a chance of Azerbaijan joining.

How would Iran react to Azerbaijan joining Turkey? Those lands have been part of Persia until the 19th century?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

How would Iran react to Azerbaijan joining Turkey? Those lands have been part of Persia until the 19th century?

Iran is in chaos in the 1920s. Once they turn better they might start to support the Soviets to get Azerbaijan as the South might get lost as well during the reorganisation of Persia by Reza Khan (if by odds he still becomes Shah). Or they just agree with Turkey to keep the Soviets out as much as possible and agree to keep Azerbaijan divided.

 

[Filo]

I think that is possible, if OE perform better in Balkan wars.
A stronger Turkey could be also an ally for GB during WWII
And having a bigger European land means that Balkan muslims could be resettled there, for Greece, with less land resettlement of Asian greeks is been worse i presume.

Do you suggest that a greater Turkey than OTL one shall be more aggressive?
If not why they should take Azerbaijan?

Edit: i have read that Ataturk refused to ask for Mossul because arab peoples were ungovernable, could him gain some more land elsewhere?

 

[EnvarKadri]

A USSR without Azerbaijan is either finished with the Civil war in 1940 or it does not exists. Oil is important for them. I don't see them stopping to get Azerbaijan. Stalin even bluffed to get Kars. I don't think the USSR will let Azerbaijan go so easily and risk war with Turkey. But it is interesting to see how the Soviets will try to use their Tank Armies without oil.

Ehhh... depends on. An exchange happened with Greece. It may happen with Bulgaria if both Bulgaria and Turkey are at war in the 1920s in which the Bulgarians lose some Southern Parts. The Muslims are deported, the remainder of Bulgarian Christians are sent to Bulgaria. But it is likely that they get settled in Thrace. Thrace is except for Istanbul... Kinda underpopulated.

Also, Bulgaria without eastern rumelia is a noodle, how would they manage without estrategical deepness? Would they get absorbed into Yugoslavia?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

Also, Bulgaria without eastern rumelia is a noodle, how would they manage without estrategical deepness? Would they get absorbed into Yugoslavia?

It might get absorbed... But it also might get compensated with Dobruja.

I also think not all of Eastern Rumelia would get taken. Too much Bulgarians there to deal with. At best small parts just to get better defendable borders with the mountains and the border parts were muslims live.

 

[Deleted member 109224]

You can get more of Thrace by doing better in the Greco-Turkish War (perhaps expanding all the way to the Axios/Vardar River?) and later joining the allies in WW2 and grabbing bits of Bulgaria in the peace.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

I think that is possible, if OE perform better in Balkan wars.
A stronger Turkey could be also an ally for GB during WWII
And having a bigger European land means that Balkan muslims could be resettled there, for Greece, with less land resettlement of Asian greeks is been worse i presume.

Do you suggest that a greater Turkey than OTL one shall be more aggressive?
If not why they should take Azerbaijan?

Edit: i have read that Ataturk refused to ask for Mossul because arab peoples were ungovernable, could him gain some more land elsewhere?

That is not true. Mosul had a large Turkmen population, if not a small majority. And Ataturk pressed claim until 1926 when it was attached to Iraq.

 

[Filo]

I reported what I read in "Ottoman End Game" by McMeekin.

 

[Filo]

You can get more of Thrace by doing better in the Greco-Turkish War (perhaps expanding all the way to the Axios/Vardar River?) and later joining the allies in WW2 and grabbing bits of Bulgaria in the peace.

Also defending Salonica during Balkan wars could help.