Would it be possible for De Gaulle or another French leader to ally the Soviets, openly or secretly. I know they left NATO for a brief time and that De Gaulle referred to the Soviet Union as Russia to evoke ww1 memories of fighting alongside one another, what would have to happen for this to be taken one step further into a full on alliance. If this did happen what would be the effects on West Germany, would they finlandize themselves in fear of being surrounded, elect ultra hawkish leaders in fear or something else. Could it tip Italy into communism, they nearly went in right after WW2 though I don't know how long communisms popularity survived their. Could Franco's Spain join NATO as a counter to France.
AHC/WI Franco-Soviet Alliance in the Cold War
- Thread starter Napoleon Forever
- Start date
The Avenger
Banned
No, they didn't. Rather, they only left NATO's integrated command structure. It's a common misconception which people need to stop making!
Also, radical idea, but what if both France and the Soviet Union had an Islamic extremism problem? They'd still be in separate political blocs, but they could ally together on this specific issue.
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De Gaulle would turn up dead the next month of "Pre-Existing heart conditions" and a strongly Anti-Soviet French leader would be supported by NATO in throwing out the alliance with the SU. France COULD NOT be allowed to go Red and the NATO intelligence agencies would stop at nothing.
Either that, or 'evidence' would surface that he was secretly working with the Nazi's during the war, had eleven mistresses, was homosexual, etc etc. Whatever was needed to discredit him. Even better if it's actually true, and can be used to threaten him with blackmail.
Quote "De Gaulle would turn up dead the next month of "Pre-Existing heart conditions" and a strongly Anti-Soviet French leader would be supported by NATO in throwing out the alliance with the SU. France COULD NOT be allowed to go Red and the NATO intelligence agencies would stop at nothing.
Either that, or 'evidence' would surface that he was secretly working with the Nazi's during the war, had eleven mistresses, was homosexual, etc etc. Whatever was needed to discredit him. Even better if it's actually true, and can be used to threaten him with blackmail." Quote
Would the French people believe such convenient evidence/death though considering the relatively strong nationalist sentiments prominent in France at the time? If the French public or worse the French military came to doubt NATO's intentions in releasing this "evidence" couldn't it backfire on them and destroy NATO's remaining sympathy in the country?
Either that, or 'evidence' would surface that he was secretly working with the Nazi's during the war, had eleven mistresses, was homosexual, etc etc. Whatever was needed to discredit him. Even better if it's actually true, and can be used to threaten him with blackmail." Quote
Would the French people believe such convenient evidence/death though considering the relatively strong nationalist sentiments prominent in France at the time? If the French public or worse the French military came to doubt NATO's intentions in releasing this "evidence" couldn't it backfire on them and destroy NATO's remaining sympathy in the country?
The USSR and France signed a Treaty of Alliance in 1944, which had a term of 20 years. I have searched in the past but I have never been able to find whether it was abrogated, so I presume it was not. Of course, it was a dead letter in practice, but technically that does meet your requirement of a Franco-Soviet Alliance during the Cold War.
The text was mostly an equivalence to the Anglo-Soviet agreement down to a similar term, and the difference it would be automatically reconducted. Giving the treaty specifically mentioned Germany as the target of the alliance, it wasn't as much abrogated than loosing any object once Germany went trough a cooperation with France which had value of denunciation in fact. Still it let some interesting pictures.
It wasn't really a problem until the late 80's, at a point where an operative alliance with Soviet Union was a bit irrelevant.
You'd really need a PoD in the 40's, with a maintained tripartisme on which gaullists would replace christian-democracy to have some more gesture towards Soviet Union and it would still remain largely formal until Soviet interventions in Central Europe would lead to a denunciation.
The best way would be that Americans stay persuaded that De Gaulle is a communist that would ally with the Soviet making them carry on the AMGOT policy in France ( It is an acronym for the Allied Military Government of the Occupied Territories, which was a US-defined plan to impose in countries "liberated from the Nazi occupation" , an allied military government, to ensure a transition to a return to "democracy")and trying to destabilize him refusing to recognize his legitimacy. This policy would push a fight between the Gaullist and the Communist against the pro-american, the Communists and Gaullists together would likely took the control of France during the first month after the war, and if the US still kept their anti-Gaullist policy an alliance would be strongly possible OTL De Gaulle worked with the Communist and the URSS when he needed their help.
the dismemberment of germany would surely be different, France will ask for its share but i'm not sure how the USa and the UK would react, concerning Italians, Italy would become a powder keg, France would not accept American interference on their neighboring country and would likely support the communist in Italy to avoid a pro-American government.
the dismemberment of germany would surely be different, France will ask for its share but i'm not sure how the USa and the UK would react, concerning Italians, Italy would become a powder keg, France would not accept American interference on their neighboring country and would likely support the communist in Italy to avoid a pro-American government.
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China, Russia, and France have all had Islamic extremism problems recently but that hasn’t exactly prompted cooperation and they are still essentially in a proxy war in Syria. Hell the Russians have recently started backing the TALIBAN, in order to undermine the Americans.