AHC/WI: Eurofederalist/Neo-Keynesian answer to the Great Recession in US and EU

Eurofed

Banned
Let's assume by whatever PoDs necessary, as late as possible, that:

a) The post-2008 Democratic President (who need not be Obama) and Congress majority muster a rather more aggressive Neo-Keynesian economic strategy to address the economic crisis: not so much political capital expended on the health care reform (they may address it eventually but only after they see some results about the economy), more extensive stimulus measures, bailouts to the financial sector strictly controlled, etc. They also enjoy a filibuster-proof supermajority and the President has the skills to keep the party united under his leadership.

b) Fairly soon after the sovreign debt crisis manifests in Europe, the political leaders of the Eurozone countries (who need not be the OTL figures) acknowledge the fiscal union of the Eurozone as the only effective response to the crisis, and have the determination and political leadership to successfully drive through a "grand bargain": the fiscally troubled countries accept EU supervision of their financial policy and as much austerity as it won't worsen their recession, the fiscally sound countries accept fiscal solidarity for the pooled Eurozone debt. Over a few years, the EU treaties are reformed (though the enhanced cooperation system) to implement full fiscal union for the Eurozone, managed by the Commission under the supervision of the Parliament and Council.
 
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not sure abut B, but somebody with a spine in 2008 is probably the way to go. Feingold, maybe? Or maybe Paul Wellstone doesn't die in a plane crash, waits out 2004, and wins the nomination in 2008.
 

Eurofed

Banned
How far back can we go PoD wise?

Uhm, tentatively I'd say not any further than when the causes of the economic crisis really started to build up, so 1998/2000, the creation of the Euro and the GWB Presidency.

It also depends on how the effects of the PoD build up: in some cases, it might even go as back as when the penultimate origins of the crisis were created, 1992/93, the Clinton Presidency and the Maastricht treaties.
 
My thoughts

BUMP! I like the idea.

I'm a dittohead as far as the time frames. 1990's to prevent the bubble forming in the US. No repeal of Glass/Steagall AND no expansion of HELOC's.
We forgot in all the hoopla over 9/11 what a sorry state the US economy was in at the turn of the century when the tech bubble burst. We just limped away from that mess when "W" decided invading Iraq was a good idea in 2002.
Modern "wars" are money pits. They don't need millions in uniform to staff the ranks or large numbers of gear (tanks, airplanes, ships) that tons of people can be employed in semi-skilled labor to make as in WWII.
Sure, military contractors have been raping the Treasury blind for support services the military did cheaper and better all-in-house (and employing a fair number of people at good wages, mostly foreigners, though), grossly inflating costs-per-boot in theater, but I digress. Wars aren't going to put us all to work is all I'm saying.

IIRC Maastricht was very heavily picketed and controversial at the time. Formation of the EU was as much an expression of euphoria over the passing of the USSR as it was a stage in nearly-inevitable economic integration from this Yank's perspective.
One of the biggest issues of joining the EU was getting one's economic house in order, mostly reducing public debt to a target % of GDP. The big problems with the PIGS is that they were in a chicken-or-the-egg quandary themselves. Spend on economic development or pay down public debt? Paying down public debt under IMF restrictions has had a fabulous record of exploding poverty rates, stagnant economic growth, etc. Ireland especially hoped it would grow its way out of the mess and pay later (not to mention encouraging a yeasty speculative RE boom) and fell downstairs when it didn't. Greece, Spain, and Portugal were poor relations to begin with and hoping to get economic aid from Germany and France, but Germany had its spare cash tied up in absorbing the GDR, not investing in getting Spain, Portugal, or Greece into economic shape.



As to what could address the Great Recession NOW:

I remember a Depression-era cartoon where a fire truck's hosing money over the burned-out shell of a building and that's what Keynesian stimulus
can do in the modern economy.

Several things need to be addressed in the modern economy:


  • Clearing the excess housing stock is paramount to stopping the free-fall in property values. Do what they did in the 80's with RTC- pick a floor value, auction 'em off, and have a chunk of properties that could become low/mid-income housing. Make them purchasable via sweat equity so they're not a free gift but something earned and cared for.
  • Infrastructure is both over-and underfunded, due to the disproportionate voting power of low population-density states when in line for federal stimulus cash. Also, on the coasts, the media's far more eager to muckrake on boondoggles like the Big Dig in Boston and various other projects that were borne of necessity, political haggling, complex liability and environmental issues, etc.
  • The current commercial model for evaluating people for creditworthiness is FUBAR. Between the problems with identity theft, garbage input from fraudulent collection agencies pursuing zombie debts on spec, people having to be more mobile in both domicile and career, and usurious interest rates leveraging yourself out of poverty via credit is nearly impossible.
  • The job "market" is a freaking mess for everyone, young or old. Employers have become insistent on people already being fully-trained, 3-5 yrs experienced and qualified for the job from day one so they don't have to pay training costs for more than basic orientation. YMMV but the expectations of productivity have become so high that companies feel nobody can afford to learn on the job which creates a chicken -or-the-egg quandary for a lot of specialized jobs that pay decently. Jobs go unfilled b/c nobody's "qualified", unemployment's high b/c it costs companies too much to hire people unless they'll be top performers right out of the box,and IMO, everyone loses.
  • Health care costs are a tremendous drain on the rest of the economy. It offers benefits, people living routinely to 70-80, However, the medical support to get there from age 40 on and esp last six mos of life is where 80-90% of health care costs are incurred. How to pay for that is something nobody in the private or public sector seems willing to tackle head-on considering the wave of Boomers hitting the high-usage years of health-care.
  • Education, especially tertiary education, has become so insanely expensive (and financed w/o any real assessment of increased value, esp for the first two years of undergrad) that it makes me weep. I love intellectual endeavors, but undergraduate studies are about learning to think and innovate as much as going to typewriting school will make you a great author. It's gussied up training. Nothing wrong with training, but be clear about what you're about and work on doing it well without breaking the bank making me and millions of others debt slaves for a decade-plus just for an oversold certificate of completion.:mad::mad: I'm sick and tired of a huge chunk of university resources diverted to a bunch of semi-pro athletes as a publicity/"fundraising" gimmick. There's a large chunk of student athletes (esp in the non-football sports) that actually take their studies seriously but award them a scholarship based on academic merit but quit using sports as the excuse for it.
So, to sum up, here's where the government can prime the pump as it were.


  • Get the foreclosure mess wrapped up ASAP as fairly and efficiently as possible, put as many folks into the homes as you can who will live there a while and maintain the property.
  • Find ways to match jobs with candidates and ease folks into the seats with training programs, vouchers for health benefits, child-care benefits, etc so the out-of-pocket costs for employers to hire and keep people aren't too harsh. Trash the Medicaid income limits and make them benefits even middle-class people can enjoy and DEFEND. Make campaigns emphasizing lean-and-mean headcounts cause too much job stress and turnover and do whatever it takes for CEO culture to hit the dustbin of history.
  • IOW Job Corps needs to be expanded from age 17-24 to pretty much the whole working age range to retrain people and KEEP retraining people every decade or so. If all you need to do is relocate and can't sell your house, Job Corps will front the costs to get you into another domicile. Would you rather give folks 5K to go where they'll be gainfully employed or keep paying UI for 99 weeks? You can tie it to government service if you want or not. The need's definitely there. Putting the $$$ we're already spending to work in better ways that actually improve folks' lives and benefiting the economy as well.
 
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b) Fairly soon after the sovreign debt crisis manifests in Europe, the political leaders of the Eurozone countries (who need not be the OTL figures) acknowledge the fiscal union of the Eurozone as the only effective response to the crisis, and have the determination and political leadership to successfully drive through a "grand bargain": the fiscally troubled countries accept EU supervision of their financial policy and as much austerity as it won't worsen their recession, the fiscally sound countries accept fiscal solidarity for the pooled Eurozone debt. Over a few years, the EU treaties are reformed (though the enhanced cooperation system) to implement full fiscal union for the Eurozone, managed by the Commission under the supervision of the Parliament and Council.

Do you realise Eurofed that what you are proposing, up to and including fiscal union would be deemed unconstitutional in for example Germany by said country supreme court?

Pooling debt would work for a while and for a while only. The ten years government bond interest rates are at the moment 2.16% for Germany, 18% for Greece, 10% for Ireland and 5% for Italy.
http://markets.ft.com/RESEARCH/Markets/Government-Bond-Spreads
If all the various bonds are pooled together, you would likely end up with "Eurobonds" whose ten year interest rate is around 3%. The Germans won't like that and while this would benefit the finances of the PIGS coutries, it could enable them to spend and borrow a lot more recklessly than is the case now rather than having them going down the route of austerity.

EU supervision of each constituent state fiscal policy won't help at all, since every EU member state has its own set of problems, which need local solutions.
EU supervision won't change the fact that the Greek economy is built on nothing except tourism, construction and low tech manufacturing. It won't change the fact that the Portuguese economy is still highly dependent on low tech manufacturing, on imports and energy inefficient. It won't remove the damage from the housing bubbles in Spain and Ireland. And it certaily won't remove the thousands of useless, corrupt and idiotic politicians which Italy has.
 
b) Fairly soon after the sovreign debt crisis manifests in Europe, the political leaders of the Eurozone countries (who need not be the OTL figures) acknowledge the fiscal union of the Eurozone as the only effective response to the crisis, and have the determination and political leadership to successfully drive through a "grand bargain": the fiscally troubled countries accept EU supervision of their financial policy and as much austerity as it won't worsen their recession, the fiscally sound countries accept fiscal solidarity for the pooled Eurozone debt. Over a few years, the EU treaties are reformed (though the enhanced cooperation system) to implement full fiscal union for the Eurozone, managed by the Commission under the supervision of the Parliament and Council.

And how exactly do you plan on changing the electorates of Finland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and Slovakia sufficiently that they sign up to this?
In every single on of those countries the idea of Euro-bonds is toxically unpopular and has been conformed by poll after poll. So how are you going to get politicians in every single one of those countries who are willing to kamikaze their political careers for the sake of averting a crisis that most people (in Jan 2010) don't acknowledge the scale of.
In would be very nice for the future of the Euro if everyone had realised how big the problem is but its a bit like getting MI6 to assassinate Hitler in 1921, it requires a ASB level of foresight among a massive number of people.
 
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