AHC/WI: Elective Monarchy in German Empire

[yeetboy]

What circumstances would lead to an elective monarchy German Empire, where the royal houses of Bavaria (Wittelsbachs), Saxony (Wettins), Wurttemberg (Wurttembergs) and Prussia (Hohenzollerns) all vied for the succession of the German crown.

Additionally, what impacts would this have on Germany and Europe in the coming century?

 

[Arcavia]

Worst case scenario, something like what happened to Poland in centuries prior.

Best case scenario, no Wilhelm II and Germany avoids becoming encircled by Entente.

 

[VictorLaszlo]

The problem is that Prussia had nearly 70% of the territory and nearly 65% of the population of the 1871 German Empire. It would never accept any election procedure that granted it less than 50% of the votes in the electoral council and if it gets more than 50% of the votes you can just as well go with hereditary succession. IOTL King Louis II of Bavaria suggested a rotating model for emperorship between the royal houses of Germany or between merely Prussia and Bavaria (quite a smart move since Wilhelm I was 73 at the time while he was just 25) but the Prussians refused to discuss or even just consider that proposal and Louis II had to make do with the bribe of 5 million Marks from the confiscated Welf funds for his castle building projects Bismarck offered him. He thus signed the letter Bismarck had prepared for him calling for Wilhelm to be proclaimed German Emperor but was the only German monarch absent during the proclamation ceremony in the hall of mirrors at Versailles itself.

 

[Dain]

This could only happen if the German Empire formed under circumstances in which Prussia is substantially weakened. Naturally.

Possibly a bloodier 1848 revolution. Maybe if you somehow managed to arrive at a Greater Germany with Austria included as a counterweight.

 

[stevej713]

You'd need a very different Austria and Prussia in the 19th century. No King of Prussia or Archduke of Austria would ever accept being subordinated to an Emperor.

 

[Dr. Waterhouse]

Well, let's say you get a different resolution to the Napoleonic wars, one where Prussia isn't so well able to leverage the power of its ally, Russia. The important thing is that this has a precedent in the constitutional structure of the Holy Roman Empire. You basically reorganize it without the ecclesiastical electors: Hanover, Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria and Bohemia (in reality, Austria). In addition to losing Cologne, Mainz and Trier, you could weed out the electors added during the wars of the French Revolution and Napoleon. Crucially, minority interests would be protected. Should for instance Prussia turn expansionist toward either Saxony or Austria, as it is wont to do, they can combine with each other and the Bavarians or the balance-of-power-loving Brits/Hanoverians.

And yes, edited because my first comment forgot that August the Strong converted to Catholicism to become the king of Poland, because of course I would.

 

[GameBawesome]

My ASB idea: The Holy Roman Empire is restored after Napoleon, and the Habsburgs return to an elective monarchy, but after the Austro-Prussian War, they Give up the Title of Holy Roman Emperor, and it is left vacant for a while until Prussia defeats France, and all the Electors, importatly Bavaria, proclaim the Prussians monarchy as the new Emperor, and declare the New Holy German Empire,
and is an elective, however the Prussians manage to keep the title, until 1918, after WWI, where they abdicate and the Saxony house becomes the new Holy German Empire.

Might have to make a small timeline idea about this to continue this idea

 

[Julio92]

My ASB idea: The Holy Roman Empire is restored after Napoleon, and the Habsburgs return to an elective monarchy, but after the Austro-Prussian War, they Give up the Title of Holy Roman Emperor, and it is left vacant for a while until Prussia defeats France, and all the Electors, importatly Bavaria, proclaim the Prussians monarchy as the new Emperor, and declare the New Holy German Empire,
and is an elective, however the Prussians manage to keep the title, until 1918, after WWI, where they abdicate and the Saxony house becomes the new Holy German Empire.

Might have to make a small timeline idea about this to continue this idea

Not too asb, the most important consideration is that the Holy Roman Empire is nowhere near centralized enough to serve as a coherent state, heck, the OTL German Empire suffered from lack of centralization problems, and struggled to collect revenue to fund its actions.

 

[Frrf]

Perhaps have the romantic nationalism of 19th Century Germany focus more on the Holy Roman Empire, and in particular build up a myth about the election of the Emperor being some symbol of German moral superiority, such that a united Germany, be it Kleindeutschland or Großdeutschland, is almost forced to adopt an electoral system modeled on that of the HRE. Possibly with either multiple votes given to some electors based on the state's population, thus ensuring Prussian victory, or a tacit understanding that the Emperor must be of the House of Hohenzollern. Easily enough accomplished, if the requirement that the vote be unanimous is also carried over. Even if all 23 or so sovereigns in the Empire are given electoral votes, and unanimity is not required, the threat of Prussia leaving and tearing the heart out of the Empire, or even just being a pain in the arse, would bias most electoral votes towards the King of Prussia, just to keep things running smoothly, unless the Prussian king is very much unsuitable and another monarch in the Empire is a viable alternative.
Interestingly, in this scenario, one would expect Emperors to carry over the regnal numbers of the Holy Roman Emperors, rather than the Prussian kings. You'd have Frederich IV, rather than Frederich III.

 

[Tibi088]

Actually Prussia could afford to concede this I think. It was dominant enough in the Empire to be sure that it would still get its ruler elected as emperor pretty securly. For what reason he would do it is a better question.

 

[GameBawesome]

I’ve read that Frederick William IV of Prussia was a hardcore Romanticist, and one of reasons why he refused the Crown of Germany in 1848, besides calling it a "a crown from the gutter", he had Romantic aspirations to the re-establish medieval Holy Roman Empire, and would only accepted if the a re-established Prince-Electors elected him.