AHC/WI: Earlier use of the vernacular in medieval Europe

How do you manage to get the administration and church to use the local languages in the various Christian kingdoms instead of Latin in both the Romance and non Romance portion of Europe? As far as I know there are few exception of regions using the vernacular like pre-Norman England but at large Latin remained the dominant standard language for just about anything written down, how do you change that situation?
 

Marc

Donor
How do you manage to get the administration and church to use the local languages in the various Christian kingdoms instead of Latin in both the Romance and non Romance portion of Europe? As far as I know there are few exception of regions using the vernacular like pre-Norman England but at large Latin remained the dominant standard language for just about anything written down, how do you change that situation?

Well, using Latin was a logical and rational solution during a set of very difficult centuries. In effect you're asking how can we get the only literate group of people in Europe to behave irrationally. Add that Latin is deeply woven into the gestalt of Western Christianity, as was Greek for the Orthodox faith - it seems like you're asking how does the West give up the legacy of Caesar and Christ, so to speak.
Unless you can come up with a compelling need, I just don't see how it would happen,
 
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Well, using Latin was a logical and rational solution during a set of very difficult centuries. In effect you're asking how can we get the only literate group of people in Europe to behave irrationally. Add that Latin is deeply woven into the gestalt of Western Christianity, as was Greek for the Orthodox faith - it seems like you're asking how does the West give up the legacy of Caesar and Christ, so to speak.
Unless you can come up with a compelling need, I just don't see how it would happen,
Except Old Church Slavonic was used in Bulgaria, Western Balkans and Russia instead of Greek fairly early in their Christianization and in England Old English was also relatively prominent.
 

Marc

Donor
Except Old Church Slavonic was used in Bulgaria, Western Balkans and Russia instead of Greek fairly early in their Christianization and in England Old English was also relatively prominent.

Definitely, almost completely due to the efforts of Saints Cyril and Methodius. However, as you noted, that was part of a missionary process as opposed to going vernacular in the context of already converted population, a significant distinction, and one that really wouldn't apply in Western Europe where Latin was well established even as the conversions took place.
I'm not particular familiar with the early history of Christianity in the British Isles (although about a year ago I did read Nigel Trantor's novel on Queen Margret of Scotland, who was a powerful influence in bringing Latin Christianity to Scotland - decent enough bit of historical fiction by the way)
 
Definitely, almost completely due to the efforts of Saints Cyril and Methodius. However, as you noted, that was part of a missionary process as opposed to going vernacular in the context of already converted population, a significant distinction, and one that really wouldn't apply in Western Europe where Latin was well established even as the conversions took place.
I'm not particular familiar with the early history of Christianity in the British Isles (although about a year ago I did read Nigel Trantor's novel on Queen Margret of Scotland, who was a powerful influence in bringing Latin Christianity to Scotland - decent enough bit of historical fiction by the way)
The thing is Latin in of itself has no theological justification to be the only language of the Church and it de facto wasn't in the East, so it's not like introducing this idea to the West is some sort of alien idea, especially considering that ultimately vernacular was more and more used the later we go in the medieval period, so the challenge is to hasten an already present trend, not to create it from the ground up.
 
The lingua franca exists because it is the common language across national and linguistic boundaries

If your elite is talking to, exchanging works with, moving in between the academia and civil service [sic] of different countries then it makes full sense

The vernacular is what the lower orders speak, and often only gets written down late in the day. There is no point the educated elite learning to debate in it if their main focus is abroad

Thus it stands to reason that what would drive a greater adoption of the vernacular among the elite is expansionism - if your small state expands over and swallows up other states then you have a larger region wherein the vernacular can be a unifying factor
 
The lingua franca exists because it is the common language across national and linguistic boundaries

If your elite is talking to, exchanging works with, moving in between the academia and civil service [sic] of different countries then it makes full sense

The vernacular is what the lower orders speak, and often only gets written down late in the day. There is no point the educated elite learning to debate in it if their main focus is abroad

Thus it stands to reason that what would drive a greater adoption of the vernacular among the elite is expansionism - if your small state expands over and swallows up other states then you have a larger region wherein the vernacular can be a unifying factor
But eventually even small states ended up vernacular languages in admistration, like Portugal.
 
Definitely, almost completely due to the efforts of Saints Cyril and Methodius. However, as you noted, that was part of a missionary process as opposed to going vernacular in the context of already converted population, a significant distinction, and one that really wouldn't apply in Western Europe where Latin was well established even as the conversions took place.
Not quite true. The local Slavic language written in the Cyrillic alphabet (ie Old Bulgarian) was imposed as the official language in Bulgaria well after conversion to Christianity and Greek was well established there, being used even before conversion.
 
I guess we're talking timeframes then
Yeah, the point is to accelerate the process.
Not quite true. The local Slavic language written in the Cyrillic alphabet (ie Old Bulgarian) was imposed as the official language in Bulgaria well after conversion to Christianity and Greek was well established there, being used even before conversion.
I wonder how you can repeat this process in Western Europe, maybe with Germany it's easier, but the clergy already started recognizing that the divergences between the Vulgar Romance and written Latin were too big by Charlemagne's time.
 
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