AHC/WI: Earlier Ottoman Collapse

Have the Ottoman Empire collapse as early as possible retaining modern day Turkey's borders at most. What would happen if it happened?
 
Can someone explain to me what he means by this?

For the empire to collapse it has to....collapse that is to say for political ruin to befall it in every corner of its territory which at best will become a rump state and a shadow of its former self. Keeping in line with modern Turkey, that is not a rump state, that's not ruin its pulling back to core territory and forgive if I'm wrong (and likely am) but the core territories were where much of Turkish strength was drawn from. What you're asking for sounds more like a fresh start than a failure.
 
What I mean is I want the Ottoman Empire, at the height of it's power, to fall into ruin as suddenly as possible. No gradual degradation, no I want a implosion.
 
I suspect one way you could have a more rapid decline with the OE collapsing in the 19th century, its complete expulsion from Europe (Including Adrianople and Constantinople) would be a combination of the Sultan failing to eliminate the Jannisary corp and for its ulemma (This is the main reason why Attaturk prohibited the involvement of islam in any way int the government) to successfully prevent the adoption of new western technologies such as improved artillery and the associated tactics and the printing-press (The OE didn't get its first printing-press till 1727).
 
The Ottoman Empire never really collapsed, it was more smashed by outside powers.

That being said, there was a very good opportunity for the Empire to collapse in the early 19th century. By this stage in Ottoman history, the Central State was extremely weak and regional pashas were defacto independent rulers. The most famous of these being Ali Pasha in Yanya and Mehmet Ali in Egypt. Combined with the first stirrings of nationalism in places like Serbia and Greece, you could actually have the Ottoman Empire collapse into several polities. It certainly wouldn't be pretty though.
I suspect one way you could have a more rapid decline with the OE collapsing in the 19th century, its complete expulsion from Europe (Including Adrianople and Constantinople) would be a combination of the Sultan failing to eliminate the Jannisary corp and for its ulemma (This is the main reason why Attaturk prohibited the involvement of islam in any way int the government) to successfully prevent the adoption of new western technologies such as improved artillery and the associated tactics and the printing-press (The OE didn't get its first printing-press till 1727).
Actually, the ulema had relatively little role when it came to preventing the modernization of the Ottoman Army, which was much more the responsibility of the Janissaries. And indeed, in various reformist eras, such as the Hamidian era, Islamic thinkers such as al-Afghani actually played a fairly significant role in advocating modernization. Ataturk's opposition to Islam was more an attempt to "Europeanize" the Turks, similar to his adoption of the European alphabet.
 

Deleted member 14881

The Ottoman Empire never really collapsed, it was more smashed by outside powers.

That being said, there was a very good opportunity for the Empire to collapse in the early 19th century. By this stage in Ottoman history, the Central State was extremely weak and regional pashas were defacto independent rulers. The most famous of these being Ali Pasha in Yanya and Mehmet Ali in Egypt. Combined with the first stirrings of nationalism in places like Serbia and Greece, you could actually have the Ottoman Empire collapse into several polities. It certainly wouldn't be pretty though.

Nassirisimo, I have a question if an Iranian state was relatively strong could they sweep in to take southern Iraq and the Shia bits of the Saudi eastern coast?
 
Nassirisimo, I have a question if an Iranian state was relatively strong could they sweep in to take southern Iraq and the Shia bits of the Saudi eastern coast?
Certainly. The Safavids were able to contest Iraq with the Ottomans, and were able to seize Bahrain from the Portuguese. Provided you get an Iranian state which is strong enough to hold the Russians in check, they could potentially seize Iraq. Indeed, they were still able to hold off the Ottomans in the early 19th century in OTL.
 
From what I understand there was a lot of political maneuvering and multiple executions involved in the Succession following Suleiman the Magnificent. If Mustafa and Bayezid had not been executed before Suleiman's Death you could probably get a pretty terrible Succession War.

If you want a purely internal Collapse to happen as soon after the Height of Ottoman Power as possible then that is probably your best bet.
 
I mean, in the 19th century, you could have the European powers let Muhammad Ali destroy it in 1839.
 

Deleted member 67076

How about the Greek Plan succeeds?

Hmm, the Orlov Revolt in conjunction with a better Russian performance in the Russo Turkish war of the 1770s could probably lead to a similar peace deal found in the one 1876 war.

You'd get an independent Greece based in Crete and the Peloponnese and a semi independent Bulgarian principality. Have things roughly got as they did OTL with the decentralization and the Ottomans would crack, with Egypt, Bulgaria, Greece and Persia sweeping in to take as much as they can.
 
Kill Mahmut II before he gets a heir. At one point in history, he was the only surviving male member of the royal family. Without him, the empire will collapse on its own.
 
What about a Crimean war PoD? I was reading about it like yesterday and apparently one of the reasons for the war was that the Western Powers didn't want Russia to treat the Ottomans too badly because they feared an imminent collapse that would create chaos in the region.
 
Right after the Battle of Ankara in 1402.Have the Italians refuse to carry any Ottoman soldiers to Europe while rebellions break out all over the place in Europe.Have Serbia,ERE and all the Christian States partition Ottoman Europe while the Ottomans fight to the death in a civil war.Meanwhile,the Beyliks breaks lose.
 
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Nappy decides to joint invade and dismember the Ottomans with Austria and Russia to keep them on his side?
 
What about a Crimean war PoD? I was reading about it like yesterday and apparently one of the reasons for the war was that the Western Powers didn't want Russia to treat the Ottomans too badly because they feared an imminent collapse that would create chaos in the region.
Problem is, the Crimean War was one of their better performances. While Sinope was a pretty shocking defeat for the Ottomans (though not an unsurprising one, when looking at the disparity in forces), the land battles of the war that happened before the British and Russian invasions indicated that the Ottomans would actually have a chance at holding the Russians off. The Ottomans came off better in the initial battles in Wallachia and Silistria, something that is often overshadowed in historiography by Sinope.
Kill Mahmut II before he gets a heir. At one point in history, he was the only surviving male member of the royal family. Without him, the empire will collapse on its own.
This is the best POD. Do it before he is able to put down Ali Pasha and there is very little to hold the Empire together and much to tear it apart.
 
Kill Mahmut II before he gets a heir. At one point in history, he was the only surviving male member of the royal family. Without him, the empire will collapse on its own.

That sounds like an excellent PoD so why not someone in this thread (Not me though) write such a fic.

Edited to add: Is this the Mahmut II that is being referred to?
 
I mean, in the 19th century, you could have the European powers let Muhammad Ali destroy it in 1839.

Would he actually let the empire collapse so much as name himself Sultan and go HAM on the modernization efforts, notably of the military sort? I've always gotten the impression that Muhammad Ali would quickly establish himself as Sultan and Caliph given the chance, not destroy the Ottoman system.
 
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