AHC/WI: Dutch North America

All of North America north of the Rio Grande becomes Dutch. How could this happen, and what would the effects be?
 
All of North America north of the Rio Grande becomes Dutch. How could this happen, and what would the effects be?

Spanish Armada in 1588 wins, the Dutch take up the British handle in colonizing Northern North America?
 
The natives push the new england colonies into the sea, and reduce the virginia colony to the point where they basically become part of the native power system.

This leaves new amsterdam as the only viable european colony.

Then a massive plague hits Europe, killing 2/3 or more of the population. Thus the tiny dutch nucleus in new amsterdam grows and eventually takes over north america.

The stupendous battle of Vera Cruz in 2131 wher the ironclads of the Dutch navy anhiliated the Spanish (ie mexican) fleet, marked the subjugation of all north america under dutch rule.


Seriously, non ASB? Dont see it. The dutch didnt really make their colony a settler colony, so otl by the time they lost political control, they were, iirc, a minority in their own colony.

I suppose, maybe, if some pod in the 1500s caused the netherlands to set up a settler colony. Maybe they lose the war of independence againt Spain, and the ' true' dutch flee west, gaining an insurmountable lead in population....
 
I dont think the Dutch have quite enough people to colonize all of North America, maybe enough to get the North and East.
 
You don' tneed the Dutch, IMO. You need the Dutch to use the Deustch as settlers. Plenty of Germans ended up in Pennsylvania OTL...
 
You don' tneed the Dutch, IMO. You need the Dutch to use the Deustch as settlers. Plenty of Germans ended up in Pennsylvania OTL...
True, Germans could fill up the lack of Dutch potential settlers. They are linguistically and culturally relatively close to Dutch, especialy the ones near the Dutch borders. Hugenots and protestant Walloons could also be used as settlers in Dutch colonies. South Africa proves they can be assimilated.

That said you need a different colonial view in the netherlands and probably a stronger Netherlands (as in include a protestant Flanders in it) and I still don't think you can get an entire Dutch North America. Not even the English managed to do that (just look at the Quebecoids and other French minorities in Canada or the Spanish speaking minorities in the USA). I do think you can get a Dutch New Netherlands with only minor PODs (mainly it stays Dutch). I do think that with bigger PODs you can get a relatively big Dutch speaking North America, but I don't think you can get a Dutch speaking America as big as an English speaking North America. The netherlands has simply too much disadvanages. Mainly population as mentioned, but another possibly even bigger disadvantage is timing. The Netherlands simply started too late. Which makes sense, as it was fighting the Dutch revolt at that time.

And no, I don't think a Netherlands that was still occupied by pain would be able to do any colonizing. The Spanish would never let them. A Spanish Netherlands would simply mean no Netherlands at all. At best it would focus trading on the baltic as it had done before.
 
I didn't actually mean linguistically and ethnically Dutch, just Dutch controlled. My thought was that Dutch North America would be as diverse as British India and controlled in a similar manner.
 
How about this scenario: William and Mary have children, and the Netherlands and England stay in personal union for about 100 years. Then there is a succession dispute leading to a War of Succession which ends with an end to the personal union, and a treaty handing over all English possessions in North America to the Netherlands (while maybe the English get the Dutch possessions in the East Indies)
 

katchen

Banned
Not likely. The English had too much of an investment in North America at that point.
However....
If the Dutch had been more aggressive about establishing fur trading posts both along the Delaware River and especially on Narragansett, Massachusetts and Penobscot Bays by 1620, they could have prevented the settlement of New England and displaced the English colonies southward, with perhaps the Pilgrims and Puritans settling what is now the Carolinas and Georgia (and getting filthy rich with tobacco plantations in the process). Then we would see a Dutch strip of settlement across North America between French Canada and the British South--with a great deal of German settlement since Dutch people were too prosperous to be motivated to settle across the sea during the 17th and 18th Centuries.
 
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