Thomas1195
Banned
Take a POD in 1914. The challenge for Britain would be fighting on the entente side and winning the world war 1 without bankrupting itself.
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A major change has been made, it is now very difficultBritain supports Germany, gets in on the spoils, war is over in 1914
I don't think limiting it to staying on the same side as OTL is that bizarre a request. It would be like someone asking a way for Germany to do better in WWI, and responding 'side with Serbia and invade Austria, keeping the Germanic parts'. It's technically true, but also pretty clearly violating the spirit of the discussion.then describe the specific circumstances instead of changing after you get an answer that you don't like
The Entente could have maybe won in 1914 if either the Marne or the Race to the Sea went really badly for the Germans, resulting in a couple of their armies getting cut off and destroyed. Or maybe they lose East Prussia and they agree to an unfavorable negotiated settlement.
This is unlikely but just possible. OTL 1914 actually went fairly badly for the Central Powers, except for Tannenberg, gaining Turkey as an ally, and they wound up with a decent strategic position in northwest France.
Another possibility is that Britain supports the Entente only with some financial and industrial help and with naval stuff like the blockade. They never expand their army or send an army to France. They use their existing troops and the Indian Army to pick off German colonies and Turkish possessions in the Near East. Somehow the Russians, French, and Italians manage to win without forty to fifty British divisions in northern France and Belgium. Something like this could happen if the Germans don't invade Belgium.
This seems problematic, the brits want to eliminate germany as a military power, like otl.The BEF is destroyed in 1914 via encirclement. The UK decides that while it will run the blockade and engage in colonial and possibly anti-Turkish action in the Middle East, its not going to put an army into Northern France.
Since there is no BEF, there are fewer offensives in the West, which preserves French strength.
The Russians manage to hold on in 1915 through the great retreat. The British score major victories against the Turks in 1915, and by 1916 they are on the verge of marching into Anatolia with the Russians. Also, internal Greek struggles end up with it joining the Entente and Serbia doesn't fall.
In 1916 there is a negotiated peace. Belgium regains independence and the Germans trade their gains in the west for gains in the east, especially a nominally independent but puppet state Poland. Austria Hungary gets something to appease the assassination of the Archduke but otherwise Serbia is kept whole. The UK gains colonies and new protectorates in the middle east.
The french also developed their own tanks independently.Britain secretly develops the Hornsby tractor into the tank pre war and the BEF goes to France with a couple of hundred of the things?
Have a look at the BEF. It was not prepared for what was to follow. What forced the British to step up armament manufacturing so drastically ?Brits develop tracked artillery tractors before the war. More mud equals longer tracks. Once the Royal Artillery have de-bugged the chassis, it is comparatively easy to add armour and guns.
How does this come to be? They may have better chances while fighting on the defensive, but if they do as they did in OTL then smashing the Germans while the latter is going to defend well is not going to happen. The Russian army is not going to crush the Germans in the east quickly enough (if they even do so).Russians trounce Germans in the East causing heavy casualties (short term) and forcing Germany to station large garrisons in East Prussia (long term).
This seems problematic, the brits want to eliminate germany as a military power, like otl.
Maybe not as a tank but it's pretty easy to get Hornsby's chain-track developed as an artillery tractor as it was originally looked at for. With it already developed and in-service from before the war starts then you'd certainly see it developed into a tank much sooner I would have thought. This would also have the side-effect of potentially butterflying Caterpillar Inc. the American corporation. If you want an armoured vehicle to give the Gernans trouble during their invasion then I would suggest the Rolls-Royce armoured car.Britain secretly develops the Hornsby tractor into the tank pre-War and the BEF goes to France with a couple of hundred of the things?
Take a POD in 1914. The challenge for Britain would be fighting on the entente side and winning the world war 1 without bankrupting itself.
Add to that Churchill doesn't seize the two Turkish Battleships as their crews arrive to take delivery and you've a better chance of keeping the Turks Neutral. Do the Turks allow the supply ships through to the Russians?In the Mediterranean, the Goeben and Breslau are sunk, and diplomacy keeps the Ottomans neutral.
Rich Rostrom came up with an interesting scenario along those lines.The Entente could have maybe won in 1914 if either the Marne or the Race to the Sea went really badly for the Germans, resulting in a couple of their armies getting cut off and destroyed.
It would be interesting logistically. One possible side-effect would be that if Antwerp was held, or at least held for a little while longer than in our timeline, then the Germans could well not capture the windfall of nitrates that were in the port which IIRC helped them bridge the gap until the Haber process was fully industrialised six or twelve months later. Even if 1st Army managed to escape with just a mauling the Entente would be much better positioned for the following battles.PoD: 9 September 1914: Lt. Col. Hentsch, Moltke's deputy charged with visiting the army HQs, leaves 2nd Army HQ, where Bülow has agreed to withdraw north immediately, en route for von Kluck's 1st Army HQ further west. While crossing the 50-km gap between the two German armies, he drives into a British advance guard patrol; his staff car is shot up, and he is captured. Von Kluck does not learn of the gap, nor of Bülow's decision to withdraw, nor of the Allied advance into the gap.
1st Army continues its attack against French 6th Army to its west, ignoring the threat from the south. 1st Army HQ is overrun by a British cavalry patrol at about 6 PM. Escaping survivors reach 1st Army's corps HQs, triggering a panic withdrawal to the north during the night of 10-11 September.
Sixth Army attacks at dawn while the BEF presses further north in the German rear. By 13 September, 1st Army has been destroyed with over 60,000 prisoners taken.
Moltke (who had a nervous breakdown OTL) commits suicide.
With their right flank destroyed, the Germans fall back to the northeast. The Allies try to turn the German right several times; each time being checked by German reserves, as in OTL's Race to the Sea. However, the Allies push the Germans east of Lille, holding western Flanders and a corridor into Antwerp (about 50-70 km east of OTL).
With the western front critical, the Germans withhold reserves from the eastern front. Samsonov and Rennenkampf still bungle the attack on east Prussia, but the Germans lack strength for any effective pursuit or counter-attack. The Russians withdraw in good order. In October, a second Russian attack with a competent general in charge drives the Germans back to the outskirts of Konigsberg.
Meanwhile, Russia defeats Austria-Hungary in Galicia, Serbia repulses Austria-Hungary's invasion, Italy refuses to join Germany and Austria (and is rumored to be joining the Allies).