AHC/WI: Brazilian United Americas

Whenever someone thinks of a united North and South America, they (understandably) think immediately of it being led by the US. But what if it was united by their more southern neighbor? Starting in 1822, how can we get a Brazilian-led unified Americas by the year 2200 (just thought giving 400 years to work with would make this easier)? If this can be a constitutional monarchy with the Braganzas as head of state that'd be a nice challenge.
 
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ASB. Brazil barely even held Uruguay in the 1820's, why would you think they could get all of South America (Even with alliances)?
 
ASB. Brazil barely even held Uruguay in the 1820's, why would you think they could get all of South America (Even with alliances)?
Why do some people think the Americas will unite despite the US going through a civil war and multiple periods of unrest? We have 200 years forward and 200 years back giving us almost 400 years to work with. If France could go from absolute anarchy to conquering most of Europe in a 20 year period than I'm sure that could be applied to any nation if given enough time.
 
The thing is that you could have it unite but maintaining it for any amount of time is impossible due to hundreds of reasons like cultural differences, geographical problems and the always present issue that this United South America has to give a lot of stuff to most of its members otherwise they will leave.
 
Made a thread about the broader geographical issues here:


I wonder if Brazil or Gran Colombia, Argentina, etc. never had a chance to do this because South America just has too many deserts, mountains, and jungles to keep a cohesive state from forming.
 
Why do some people think the Americas will unite despite the US going through a civil war and multiple periods of unrest? We have 200 years forward and 200 years back giving us almost 400 years to work with. If France could go from absolute anarchy to conquering most of Europe in a 20 year period than I'm sure that could be applied to any nation if given enough time.

France had a massive population advantage over its neighbors from about 1200 until the 19th century. And anarchy is definitely overstating their issues, since there was usually someone in charge of most of the country even during the Terror.

And as for Brazil, you shouldn't let its modern population of 200+ million fool you. It wasn't always a demographic peer of the United States. They were close enough in 1800, with 3.25 million Brazilians vs. 5.2 million Americans, but by 1850, The US' population had nearly quintupled to 23 million, while Brazil's had barely doubled to 7.25 million. They didn't have the demographic punch in the proper time period.

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but the United States never seriously tried to formally unite the Americas under one government, so a much smaller country succeeding is even more improbable. ASB is overused around here, but empires spanning two continents are extremely rare, and Brazil didn't really have anything promising enough to make one think it could have been the exception.
 
Made a thread about the broader geographical issues here:


I wonder if Brazil or Gran Colombia, Argentina, etc. never had a chance to do this because South America just has too many deserts, mountains, and jungles to keep a cohesive state from forming.
Mind you this is a united North AND South America, which will admittedly make this a lot harder.

I just wanted to take a common future prediction, change the leading nation, and give it a 200 year head start to stabilize before getting crazy.
 
It is maybe doable with a lot of wanking and screwing, you need to screw a lot the US and balkanize it, screw Mexico just a little more, but also balkanize it, you also need to kick or make the Europeans abandon the rest of America, meanwhile Brazil must unite South America, later you need Brazil to unite with the other countries by diplomacy forming something like an European Union, but more centralized and controled by Brazil.

Is it ASB? No, but it also is not very plausible. If the challenge was just uniting South America, it would be very doable, once Argentina is absorbed, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Bolivia are doomed, the rest could be reduced to protectorates by the force of the Brazilian Navy and Economy.
 
It is maybe doable with a lot of wanking and screwing, you need to screw a lot the US and balkanize it, screw Mexico just a little more, but also balkanize it, you also need to kick or make the Europeans abandon the rest of America, meanwhile Brazil must unite South America, later you need Brazil to unite with the other countries by diplomacy forming something like an European Union, but more centralized and controled by Brazil.

Is it ASB? No, but it also is not very plausible. If the challenge was just uniting South America, it would be very doable, once Argentina is absorbed, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Bolivia are doomed, the rest could be reduced to protectorates by the force of the Brazilian Navy and Economy.
What is the most likely year for the "South American Union" and if we can keep Brazil wanked when could we get our Império das Américas?
 
What is the most likely year for the "South American Union" and if we can keep Brazil wanked when could we get our Império das Américas?

Brazil doesn't lose the Cisplatine Province.
Argentina is annexed bit by bit after a certain number of wars, until 1860.
Paraguay annexed sometime before 1880.
Chile could be annexed or forced into becoming a protectorate sometime after 1880, but before 1900, maybe in the same war Peru and Bolivia are defeated and both lose their non Andean territories in the east, if that is the case they could be forced together into an union with what is left of Chile, if something is left. Obviously such a union would be under the protection of Brazil. If no territores are taken, they could just be made as protectorates as they are.
The rest of South America could be controled by fair diplomacy, unequal treaties or wars from this point on.
An Alternate Great War could weaken Britain and France in the 20th century, maybe Brazil could take their territories if they are on opposing sides in this alternate Great War.
In North America the 19th century is much more violent, maybe the Texan Revolution fails, but Mexico is still weak and it fails to defend itself from separatism on the next decades, in the US a Civil War still happens because something like the bleeding Kansas, instead of the North winning the South wins because something like the Trent Affair brings Britain and France to the war.
After the separation between North and South both halves of the US end up falling into factionalism and separatism, with coups, civil wars and regular wars, also many radical ideologies find fertile ground and take hold of those countries.
After taking the Britih territories in North America and the Caribbean Brazil sees all the Continent of America as his zone of influence, they try to bring stability to the Northern part of the region by dominating it and keeping friendly governments there.
Through the 20th to the mid 21st century Brazil gradually evolve its sphere into an alternate OAS, then into an Economic Union (an EU-like organization), and then into a Political Union or Federation much like the German Empire.
 
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Brazil doesn't lose the Cisplatine Province.
Argentina is annexed bit by bit after a certain number of wars, until 1860.
Paraguay annexed sometime before 1880.
Chile could be annexed or forced into becoming a protectorate sometime after 1880, but before 1900, maybe in the same war Peru and Bolivia are defeated and both lose their non Andean territories in the east, if that is the case they could be forced together into an union with what is left of Chile, if something is left. Obviously such a union would be under the protection of Brazil. If no territores are taken, they could just be made as protectorates as they are.
The rest of South America could be controled by fair diplomacy, unequal treaties or wars from this point on.
An Alternate Great War could weaken Britain and France in the 20th century, maybe Brazil could take their territories if they are on opposing sides in this alternate Great War.
In North America the 19th century is much more violent, maybe the Texan Revolution fails, but Mexico is still weak and it fails to defend itself from separatism on the next decades, in the US a Civil War still happens because something like the bleeding Kansas, instead of the North winning the South wins because something like the Trent Affair brings Britain and France to the war.
After the separation between North and South both halves of the US end up falling into factionalism and separatism, with coups, civil wars and regular wars, also many radical ideologies find fertile ground and take hold of those countries.
After taking the Britih territories in North America and the Caribbean Brazil sees all the Continent of America as his zone of influence, they try to bring stability to the Northern part of the region by dominating it and keeping friendly governments there.
Through the 20th to the mid 21st century Brazil gradually evolve its sphere into an alternate OAS, then into an Economic Union (an EU-like organization), and then into a Political Union or Federation much like the German Empire.
So with the wank prescribed it'd be somewhere between 2040-2070 correct?
 
So with the wank prescribed it'd be somewhere between 2040-2070 correct?

2030-2070 in my take, but there are other paths that you could have, for example using atomic bombs to screw the US... but I think that mine is more on the plausible side, even though it relies a lot in Brazil consistingly rolling 20s and the US rolling almost only 1s in this game.
 
2030-2070 in my take, but there are other paths that you could have, for example using atomic bombs to screw the US... but I think that mine is more on the plausible side, even though it relies a lot in Brazil consistingly rolling 20s and the US rolling almost only 1s in this game.
Understandable, I knew the dice would need to be loaded in this scenario anyway, just wanted to see if the deck could be stacked in a realistic manner. And at least 130 years ahead of schedule too so that's impressive.
 
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