AHC/WI: Barack Obama IS Born in Kenya

Everyone here has probably heard the conspiracy theory that US President Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Of course, he was really born in America, but what if he really was born in Kenya? For starters, is their any way to make this actually happen? And what would the effects of this be on his life? let's assume he still goes to America at some point. Now, their would be no attempt to cover up where he was born of course, but lets assumme he also still eventually goes into politics. Would him being born in Kenya really bar him from becoming President?
 
I'm not so sure, though. Ann Dunham was an American citizen at the time of Obama's birth, so even if he were born outside the United States, Obama would be a citizen from birth and, thus, would not have to be naturalized. As such, he would be eligible to become president all the same.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
 

The Vulture

Banned
I'm not so sure, though. Ann Dunham was an American citizen at the time of Obama's birth, so even if he were born outside the United States, Obama would be a citizen from birth and, thus, would not have to be naturalized. As such, he would be eligible to become president all the same.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

The Constitution specifies "natural-born". A Congressional Committee concluded last year that naturalized citizens of foreign birth are ineligible. Details here.
 
I posted a similar musing about this topic awhile back.

But actually McCain, not Obama, is the one you want, as he really did have serious OTL issues with his eligibilty for POTUS. (the whole birther thing was thought up by McCain's campaign staff and/or the GOP to distract from their canadite's eligibilty issues)

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=221550&highlight=Mccain+ineligibility

Short answer/summary is that that particular clause in the US constitution regarding what exactly is a 'natural born' citizen has never been clearly defined or clarified by either the Supreme Court or the House of Representives.

Perhaps if McCain had won the election, and legal attempts had been made to stop him from beening sworn in we could have finally settled this issue.
 
Pretty sure Obama would still be eligible to be President even if he was born in Kenya, by virtue of his mom being a US citizen at the time of his birth.

You only have to be born on US soil to be a natural born citizen if your parents are not US citizens.

So yeah. Even if the Birther people were actually right about where Obama was, it wouldn't have any impact whatsoever. He's still a natural born citizen.
 
Pretty sure Obama would still be eligible to be President even if he was born in Kenya, by virtue of his mom being a US citizen at the time of his birth.

You only have to be born on US soil to be a natural born citizen if your parents are not US citizens.

So yeah. Even if the Birther people were actually right about where Obama was, it wouldn't have any impact whatsoever. He's still a natural born citizen.
took the words right out of my mouth

so, yeah, [/thread]
 
And my smart-assed GA looking over my shoulder just now (and not marking my students tests) is of the opinion that the whole 'natural born' citizen clause of the constitution was rendered null and void anyway due to Eisenhower's presidency.

Eisenhower was sworn in as president (twice), even though he was very clearly not eligible for POTUS as per the US constitution; not being able to meet the 'resident of the U.S.A for last 14 years' part.

It is my GA's assertion that since the Supreme Court did not prevent Eisenhower from being sworn in, that they ipso facto invalidated the 'natural born' citizen clause.
 
And my smart-assed GA looking over my shoulder just now (and not marking my students tests) is of the opinion that the whole 'natural born' citizen clause of the constitution was rendered null and void anyway due to Eisenhower's presidency.

Eisenhower was sworn in as president (twice), even though he was very clearly not eligible for POTUS as per the US constitution; not being able to meet the 'resident of the U.S.A for last 14 years' part.

It is my GA's assertion that since the Supreme Court did not prevent Eisenhower from being sworn in, that they ipso facto invalidated the 'natural born' citizen clause.
well, i think in Eisenhower's case, exigent circumstances overrule that. 'cuz, y'know, he was out leading a counterinvasion in fucking World War II. and would that even count as him not being a resident of the US? just because he's not living in his house doesn't mean he's physically moved to Europe or wherever while on active duty. am i invalidated as a resident of the US because my family and i stayed in a hotel in Canada while on vacation in the mid-2000s, and thus haven't lived continuously in the United States for 14 years? what about soldiers serving a tour of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan, are they not considered residents of the US because they're out fighting insurgents for a couple of years?
 
Anyway, it is impossible to answer the OP's question, as

We don't know.

1. The issue has never been legal settled (despited what my GA says)
2. The issue needs to be settled by the Supreme Court in conjuction with the House of Representives.
3. The majority of scholaraly opinion is that the issue will be almost certainly be settled in favour of birth by jus solis or birth to a US citizen outside the US.

Again it will come down to what 9 really old people in long, flowing black gowns decide when they get around to it.
 
And my smart-assed GA looking over my shoulder just now (and not marking my students tests) is of the opinion that the whole 'natural born' citizen clause of the constitution was rendered null and void anyway due to Eisenhower's presidency.

Eisenhower was sworn in as president (twice), even though he was very clearly not eligible for POTUS as per the US constitution; not being able to meet the 'resident of the U.S.A for last 14 years' part.

It is my GA's assertion that since the Supreme Court did not prevent Eisenhower from being sworn in, that they ipso facto invalidated the 'natural born' citizen clause.

I will probably realize this is a stupid question after seeing the answer, but what is a GA? They seem knowledgeable. I think I shall acquire one.
 
And my smart-assed GA looking over my shoulder just now (and not marking my students tests) is of the opinion that the whole 'natural born' citizen clause of the constitution was rendered null and void anyway due to Eisenhower's presidency.

Eisenhower was sworn in as president (twice), even though he was very clearly not eligible for POTUS as per the US constitution; not being able to meet the 'resident of the U.S.A for last 14 years' part.

It is my GA's assertion that since the Supreme Court did not prevent Eisenhower from being sworn in, that they ipso facto invalidated the 'natural born' citizen clause.

The residency of the U.S.A. bit had already been done in by the inauguration of Herbert Hoover in 1928, as he had lived outside the U.S.A. between 1897 and 1917.
 
The Constitution specifies "natural-born". A Congressional Committee concluded last year that naturalized citizens of foreign birth are ineligible. Details here.

Actually, this report seems to support superjames:

"The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term “natural born” citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship “by birth” or “at birth,” either by being born “in” the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born in other situations meeting legal requirements for U.S. citizenship “at birth.” Such term, however, would not include a person who was not a U.S. citizen by birth or at birth, and who was thus born an “alien” required to go through the legal process of “naturalization” to become a U.S. citizen."

So, Obama would be fine (so was McCain). I think some of the birthers try to handwave this by claiming that the 18-year old Dunham hadn't been a citizen for 18 years and didn't count, but that seems like a stretch.
 
The question is governed by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. According to that law a child born outside of the United States if:
  1. The person's parents were married at the time of birth;
  2. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born;
  3. The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth; and
  4. A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
 
Last edited:

pnyckqx

Banned
I posted a similar musing about this topic awhile back.

But actually McCain, not Obama, is the one you want, as he really did have serious OTL issues with his eligibilty for POTUS. (the whole birther thing was thought up by McCain's campaign staff and/or the GOP to distract from their canadite's eligibilty issues)

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=221550&highlight=Mccain+ineligibility

Short answer/summary is that that particular clause in the US constitution regarding what exactly is a 'natural born' citizen has never been clearly defined or clarified by either the Supreme Court or the House of Representives.

Perhaps if McCain had won the election, and legal attempts had been made to stop him from beening sworn in we could have finally settled this issue.
DISCLAIMER: i am a 'birther' and not a member of either of the two major political parties.

John S. McCain III was born in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone. SOFA (status of forces agreement) at the time makes him a natural born American Citizen.

In modern times, the real issue would have been the legitimacy of George Romney, father of present candidate Mitt Romney, and a candidate himself. Romney was born to two American Parents in Mexico.

Prior to that, some questions were raised over the eligibility of Barry Goldwater in 1964. Goldwater had been born in Arizona at a time before it was a state in the Union. However it was a US Territory.

The only US President questionable prior to Obama would be Chester A. Arthur.

The issue with Obama is that his father was at the time a British Subject of Kenya, not an American Citizen.

There is a supplemental issue as well. Obama was as a child a citizen of Indonesia, having moved there when his mother married Lolo Sotero. To this day he speaks fluent Indonesian. This causes some questions over his eligibility, but this is an aspect of the controversy that i am less prepared to speak on.

ORIGINS OF BIRTHERISM IN THE CASE OF BARACK OBAMA/BARRY SOTERO:

The McCain Campaign had nothing to do with the issue.

The question of Obama's eligibility began with a Democratic Party Activist named Phillip J. Berg. Berg was a coordinator for the campaign of Hilary Clinton in the 2008 Pennsylvania Primary.
 
Last edited:
You do realize that Obama's mother was a US citizen and that this is all that's required, right? It doesn't matter what Barack Obama, Sr. is.
 
Top