AHC/WI: Australia becomes part of the EU?

[Avrorrange]

Maybe or the UK & ‘White Commonwealth’ (minus Canada) leaves with the UK to form a trading bloc of the own.

It all depends upon how the having the ‘White Commonwealth’ (minus Canada) be part of the EU changes the development of the EU. Does the EEC evolve into the EU in the first place? I refer you to the antepenultimate and penultimate paragraphs of the post to which you replied.

The following is from the perspective of a person who regarded himself as British first, English second and European not-at-all (and FWIW still does) AND as one of the people who was undecided until the night before the referendum. It seemed to me (and some people that I talked to after the event) that the choice was between keeping the UK independent and the (IMHO overrated) economic benefits of remaining in the EU which sooner or later would become the Federated States of Europe. I voted to leave because I didn't feel European, in the same way that Scottish & Welsh nationalists say they're not British, they're Scottish & Welsh and want to have independent states regardless of the disadvantages.

I might have voted to remain if having the ‘White Commonwealth’ (minus Canada) join the EEC stopped it evolving into the EU and remained the Common Market that the British public was told it was joining. So yes to the Single Market in 1992, but no to the ERM, no to the Social Chapter, no to the Single Currency and make the best of bad jobs with CAP and the CFP. FWIW what happened when the UK was in the ERM and Black Wednesday was what turned me from being a lukewarm supporter of the EU to being a Eurosceptic.

If it doesn't stop the EEC from evolving into the EU and the drift towards European integration then no it doesn't stop the UK leaving the EU.

A lot of Australians were genuinely dumbfounded when the British left the EU. We probably wouldn’t leave because joining the EU meant military guarantees by the European powers. We would have de facto joined nato.The Australian political establishment always wanted more security guarantees by Western powers. We only sucked up to the US so much because they were the only ones(discounting NZ since they need help from us instead and don’t really have a good military) willing to help out after the British turned tail and ran from East of Suez.

 

[yulzari1]

For so many years Australians whinged that they were a proper country of their own and Britain should respect that and not treat them like a little brother and then got all upset when Britain did exactly that and attended to Britain’s needs first. Being a European country it’s future lay and lies, with Europe. Why would the EU be different and want Australia in it? Australia’s future lies with its neighbours in the West Pacific region like Indonesia and Philippines not ones like Spain or Poland. Seeking membership of the EU instead smacks of racism rather than trade and security.

 

[Avrorrange]

For so many years Australians whinged that they were a proper country of their own and Britain should respect that and not treat them like a little brother and then got all upset when Britain did exactly that and attended to Britain’s needs first. Being a European country it’s future lay and lies, with Europe. Why would the EU be different and want Australia in it? Australia’s future lies with its neighbours in the West Pacific region like Indonesia and Philippines not ones like Spain or Poland. Seeking membership of the EU instead smacks of racism rather than trade and security.

I think you underestimate the Anglophilia of this country. We were one of the last countries to ratify the Statute of Westminster(I think NZ got us beat on being the actual last), with us only ratifying it during the 1940s. Prior to the Whitlam government, we were openly racist as fuck. It’s no secret that we wanted to be Britain’s wingman in Asia and we want mainly Britons to be our main source of immigrants. Immigration from Britain was heavily subsidized by the Australian government and immigration from elsewhere discouraged. All of this only really changed after the 70s, after Britain ditched us. The whinging mostly started then. We literally fought two wars that didn’t really concern us for Britain and we got treated like shit nonetheless.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

FWIW New Zealand wanting to join the EEC feels less implausible to me than Australia because I've anecdotally been lead to believe that the Kiwis were a lot more pro the "Mother Country" than the Aussies in the 1970s and continued to be very pro-British into the 1990s. (As late as 2015 56% of them voted to keep the Blue Ensign flag.) Is that correct?

Adult New Zealanders in the 1970s mostly considered New Zealand to be Britain in the Pacific. The UK was either The Mother Country or Home, with the feeling increasing with the age of the individual asked. I knew an old woman who'd emigrated as a 10 year old girl in the 1890's who still called the UK home.

 

[StevoJH]

I think you underestimate the Anglophilia of this country. We were one of the last countries to ratify the Statute of Westminster(I think NZ got us beat on being the actual last), with us only ratifying it during the 1940s. Prior to the Whitman government, we were openly racist as fuck. It’s no secret that we wanted to be Britain’s wingman in Asia and we want mainly Britons to be our main source of immigrants. Immigration from Britain was heavily subsidized by the Australian government and immigration from elsewhere discouraged.

From memory (so could be wrong), the Statute was Westminster was only passed in Canberra in 1942 because it was discovered that the Australian declaration of war Against Japan was technically illegal as it was the Statute of Westminster that gave the Commonwealth the power to independently declare war.

Also, Australia wasn't tied to to Britain in terms of parliament up until the 1980's, it was that until the Australia Act was passed in the 1980's, there was still the ability to appeal to the Privy Council as the final Court of Appeal if the State Supreme Courts found against you. Acts of Parliament in the 1960's and 1970's effectively removed the ability to appeal to the Privy Council in matters in which the High Court of Australia had found against you.

 

[Avrorrange]

From memory (so could be wrong), the Statute was Westminster was only passed in Canberra in 1942 because it was discovered that the Australian declaration of war Against Japan was technically illegal as it was the Statute of Westminster that gave the Commonwealth the power to independently declare war.

Also, Australia wasn't tied to to Britain in terms of parliament up until the 1980's, it was that until the Australia Act was passed in the 1980's, there was still the ability to appeal to the Privy Council as the final Court of Appeal if the State Supreme Courts found against you. Acts of Parliament in the 1960's and 1970's effectively removed the ability to appeal to the Privy Council in matters in which the High Court of Australia had found against you.

Technically speaking, up until 1986, Britain still had the right to legislate over Australian state governments I believe.

 

[West234]

Could this possibly open up the door to other nations like Canada for joining the eu? They are in a similar boat politicly and a lot closer to Europe.

 

[Devvy]

You could certainly see a closer integrated relationship between Australia (and maybe Canada, New Zealand etc), and the European Union. This would maybe trigger an earlier development of what became the EEA; a relationship between the EU and other states which allowed for free trade (although notably excluding agriculture which might change here) and free movement of people.

I can’t see what reason Australia would have for joining the EU itself though. The EU is based on a standardising of rules to allow the sharing of common resources and cross border trade easier. Neither of these really apply to countries across the seas; the border is physically present regardless of cross-border rules (1-2 days in customs doesn’t matter so much when your goods have already spent months in transit on a container ship), and likewise rules about common fisheries or a shared currency aren’t going to have any advantage in Australia. I can’t see any advantage in Australia joining the EU, but as I said, I can see a role for Australia in EFTA and what became the EEA, with butterflies maybe including agriculture in that scheme for Australia (and likely New Zealand as well). This would bring a level of Trans-Tasman integration too, whilst it would also present an opportunity for those White-Australia policy advocates to allow more white Europeans to immigrate to Australia in the 1970s to balance those immigrants from Asia. I’m not saying that’s right, but I think some would see it as an advantage.

Whether the EEC at the time of the 1970s would accept that is another matter. They were already afraid I believe of the EEC being watered down to a free trade bloc instead of the super state that many of the European fathers envisaged, and trying to widen the EEC to cover British overseas Dominions would only further that transition to a European-centred global trade bloc in their eyes.

 

[Crazyduck156]

We literally fought two wars that didn’t really concern us for Britain and we got treated like shit nonetheless.

comparing the status of Australia before and after the world wars to the status of Britain after both I think you got off practically scot free

 

[Avrorrange]

comparing the status of Australia before and after the world wars to the status of Britain after both I think you got off practically scot free

The Australian people at the time didn’t necessarily want that. A good portion of them were people straight from the motherland.They just want to be a loyal province (with a high degree of self rule)to the empire and share prosperity with the motherland. The motherland decided to kick them out…..Can‘t be helped that people are talking about severing ties and self-rule afterwards. Really, how does Britain expect us to behave?

 

[Crazyduck156]

The Australian people at the time didn’t necessarily want that. A good portion of them were people straight from the motherland.They just want to be a loyal province (with a high degree of self rule)to the empire and share prosperity with the motherland. The motherland decided to kick them out…..

Cause the motherland was shattered by both world wars, financially gutted by the wars and the yanks, then dragged further down into the abyss by militant unions being useful idiots and idiotic politicans, then dragged into and deeper into europe by said politicans which never asked the population (except that one time they "asked" after already doing it), to act as a piggy bank and a one sided destination for FoM badly suppressing wages while massively driving up costs.

There was no "shared prosperity" to be had so yes Australia got off very lucky

 

[yulzari1]

In a changing world Britain needed a set of colleagues to maintain an influential place. The colonies were gone or going, the dominions, reasonably enough, were going off to do their own thing. Had there been a period CANZUK that would have probably served all well but it would be seen as a soft empire/ dominion two tier affair by the dominions. Europe was on the table and active and Britain is a European country so that was the only grouping on offer.

The only reason for Australia to seek membership of the EU would be to maintain open trade with Britain from within the EU. A opportunity to boot of free trade with the rest of the EU states too. Similarly for New Zealand. That would not get past the period and present requirement for being in Europe. Using the French model, the only way that it could get past that gate would be for Australia to become part of the metropolitan United Kingdom and give up its own sovereignty. Again the same for New Zealand. There would remain some wriggle room for regional devolution of internal powers and the historic precedent of the retention of Scottish law etc. upon the Act of Union but essentially Westminster would extend its supremacy to include Australia. Much as has been proposed for Malta, Gibraltar and Newfoundland in the past. It might soften the internal political impact if the Australian states joined individually as regions on the Scotland model. If I understand the Australian constitution correctly that might be a necessary step anyway.

I have to say that the idea of Australian free trade in agricultural produce will frighten off the major EU players who have a significant rural vote bloc. How about protected status for the meat pie floater akin to Roquefort cheese and the Cornish pasty?

Bad news for pensioners in Britain as, by OTL precedent, cold weather payments will end just as they did for Britons living in France as Martinique etc. are warm in the winter so the average temperature in France exceeded the minimum to trigger payments for British subjects living in France. I really recall that one as I was apparently toasty warm living in France with the temperature at -12 degrees C and lower with the roads snowed up and farm diesel and heating oil waxing up……

 

[Discernible]

How about Australia never formally adopts the Statute of Westminster; then does a Newfoundland and comes under control of a UK Commission of Government. This withers the Commonwealth government leaving the states untouched.

Events mean a return to Dominion status is held off for years up to the 1960s/70s and in negotiations Australia is treated as part of the UK - something like how French Guiana is part of the EU.

...or something along those lines...

BTW Australia wasn't fully constitutionally independent of the UK until 1986...

 

[hirsch91]

Going back to my earlier point. A united EU military or rather an EU arcticle 5 of NATO would give Australia the security guarantees it so deperately yearned for. Thus it would allow Australia to not focus its foreign policy on the US. AFAIK, Australia followed the US in every war since the second world war as part of aligning itself closer to the US .
I mentioned in my "What if Russia and Ukraine joined the EU" thread already but I believe with European agriculture getting outcompeted by Australian agriculture, more European farmers would either switch to more custom crops such (ie Italian farmers importing cheap Australian grains while focusing on labor intensive fruits or vegetables), thus more eastern Europeans could be absorbed by western/southern European agricultural sectors. Australia itself would become a destination for eastern European immigrants which in turn would alleviate the "pressure" of eastern European migrants on Britain. In some thread on here I've read that Britains eurosceptiscism was kicked off by Germany placing a memorandum on eastern Europeans immigrating for a couple of years in the early 2000s which made the bulk of them go to Britain instead which in turn fueled British euroscepticism.
As for the benefits it would have for Australia, other than being part of the largest single market on earth, the security gurantees would be the political capital. Of course, no one could have forseen decades ago that China grows to the behemoth it is today but still, in the face of a rising Chinese super power, the second largest economy in the world would have Australias back.

 

[Roderick Hutchinson]

Australia finally became independent in 1986 with the Australia act, all Australians prior to 1986 were considered British Subjects, I know I was one of them as I was born in 1966, from 1986 I and millions of others became Australian Citizens. Also under the Australia Act the then current monarch was stripped of powers of sacking prime ministers, such happened in the Whitlam conspiracy. Also we established the High Court of Australia, we ended the role of the British Privvie court as final arbiters of law in Australia, also we enacted the role of the Governer General as our head of state. Also in 1986 we officially adopted Advance Australia Fair as our national anthem replacing God Save the Queen, then we stopped flying the Union Jack and formally adopted the Australian Flag under the Flag act in 1986.

Australia now has cut a lot of ties with Britain, we are jokingly considered more like the 51st state of America than British, our language, culture and politically we are more connected to the USA than Britain. Also The USA saved us from the Japanese while the British were happy to allow the Japanese to invade and genocide us to extinction. Remember Churchill hated Australia with a passion, he blamed us for the entire failure at the Gallipoli campaign, also the mindset of Britain held Australia in contempt.

Australia is now firmly cemented into Asia, we are an Asian nation, we are economically tied to Asia, our trading partners are Asian, I am a white Anglo-Saxon Australian but I call myself Asian. The only thing that reminds me of my British heritage is the Union Jack on our flag.