AHC & WI: Angola and/or Mozambique become British, with POD after 1750

How could Angola, Mozambique or both become British with a POD after 1750. How would they then integrate into broader British Africa?
 
Not much a challenge. Sufficient to presume Pombal would have sell to the British those lands for immediate cash.

And because Portuguese Angola and Mozambique were a mere series of coastal outposts, it would'nt be difficult for the British to replace the same Portuguese.
 
How could Angola, Mozambique or both become British with a POD after 1750. How would they then integrate into broader British Africa?

Obtaining the colonies is as easy as delaying World War I a couple years.

Germany and the United Kingdom were planning on carving up the Portuguese Empire by forcing a debt crisis upon Portugal. Germany would get Angola and most of Northern Mozambique, and the United Kingdom would get the remainder of Mozambique and Portugal's remaining overseas territories (with the notable exception of Cape Verde - which was apparently considered integral Portugal).

If you delay the outbreak of WWI, Germany and the United Kingdom would have gone through with this plan and carved up the Portuguese Empire. Then the British could presumably take Angola and the remainder of Mozambique during the World War I equivalent.

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As for how they would integrate into British Africa - that's a more open question.

I suspect that Mozambique south of the Save River could be ceded to South Africa, who desired the port of Lourenço Marques. Mozambique between the Save and Zambezi-Shire River could conceivably be ceded to South Rhodesia to provide for an outlet to the sea.

The remainder of Portuguese Africa could probably go a number of ways.
 
Obtaining the colonies is as easy as delaying World War I a couple years.

Germany and the United Kingdom were planning on carving up the Portuguese Empire by forcing a debt crisis upon Portugal. Germany would get Angola and most of Northern Mozambique, and the United Kingdom would get the remainder of Mozambique and Portugal's remaining overseas territories (with the notable exception of Cape Verde - which was apparently considered integral Portugal).

If you delay the outbreak of WWI, Germany and the United Kingdom would have gone through with this plan and carved up the Portuguese Empire. Then the British could presumably take Angola and the remainder of Mozambique during the World War I equivalent.

I've never actually seen any proof that the UK seriously entertained the idea. Thishttps://books.google.com.au/books?id=eRrKP4Jl1NMC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=portugal+debt+1898+plan+Salisbury&source=bl&ots=AJYL1oPSca&sig=z-NYnCi6scXkqA6B7bqDm0rE_J8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAGoVChMIkKi7672FyQIVxhmmCh1TiAxj#v=onepage&q=portugal%20debt%201898%20plan%20Salisbury&f=false
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=eRrKP4Jl1NMC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=portugal+debt+1898+plan+Salisbury&source=bl&ots=AJYL1oPSca&sig=z-NYnCi6scXkqA6B7bqDm0rE_J8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAGoVChMIkKi7672FyQIVxhmmCh1TiAxj#v=onepage&q=portugal%20debt%201898%20plan%20Salisbury&f=false
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=eRrKP4Jl1NMC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=portugal+debt+1898+plan+Salisbury&source=bl&ots=AJYL1oPSca&sig=z-NYnCi6scXkqA6B7bqDm0rE_J8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAGoVChMIkKi7672FyQIVxhmmCh1TiAxj#v=onepage&q=portugal%20debt%201898%20plan%20Salisbury&f=false suggests that the government didnt really think it was going to work, and that it was a disingenuous move.

I think an easier scenario would be if French invasion and occupation of Portugal was more successful during the Napoleonic wars, prompting Britain to start seizing territories a la Cape Colony.
 
I think an easier scenario would be if French invasion and occupation of Portugal was more successful during the Napoleonic wars, prompting Britain to start seizing territories a la Cape Colony.

ASB unless to pull a victorious Trafalgar, and maybe even a victorious Abukir for the French.
 
French failure in Portugal had more to do with the French turning on Spain than it did anything else. Sans that, taking Portugal is ridiculously easy.

Your problem is that IF the royal family escapes, Britain isn't going to take Portuguese colonies, because there's still a Portuguese empire. keep the royal family in Portugal, and the colonies are history.

You could move up the time table to the War of the Oranges. OTL, Spain didn't really have their heart in it, so they stopped when they didn't have to. Change it up so that they want to and Portugal can be easily occupied. This has the added bonus in that this war really got the Portuguese court to thinking about moving overseas. If they don't already have this in mind, they might move slow enough to allow the Spanish and the French forces on their way to capture them.

Or, you could move it up even further to 1761/62, when the Spanish came dangerously close to taking the country. A bit better planning, and it could have happened.

Spanish/French forces occupying Portugal is far from ASB
 
French failure in Portugal had more to do with the French turning on Spain than it did anything else. Sans that, taking Portugal is ridiculously easy.

Your problem is that IF the royal family escapes, Britain isn't going to take Portuguese colonies, because there's still a Portuguese empire. keep the royal family in Portugal, and the colonies are history.

You could move up the time table to the War of the Oranges. OTL, Spain didn't really have their heart in it, so they stopped when they didn't have to. Change it up so that they want to and Portugal can be easily occupied. This has the added bonus in that this war really got the Portuguese court to thinking about moving overseas. If they don't already have this in mind, they might move slow enough to allow the Spanish and the French forces on their way to capture them.

Or, you could move it up even further to 1761/62, when the Spanish came dangerously close to taking the country. A bit better planning, and it could have happened.

Spanish/French forces occupying Portugal is far from ASB

If Spain does occupy Portugal, what do you think the peace treaty would be? Grabbing a couple provinces?
 
socrates,
depends on which war you're talking.

1762: I don't think the world will allow Spain to keep Portugal, so you're likely to see some nibbling at the edges of Portugal, probably taking some brazilian territory (especially colonia del sacramento, but possibly portions of Rio Grande do Sul). Mostly, they'll be trading giving up Portugal in return for all the spanish territories captured by Britain, and trying to squeeze Gibraltar out of the deal.

After Spain throws it lot in with Napoleon, it'll try to keep as much as possible. OTL War of Oranges, Spain was supposed to take and keep the northern provinces. Spain stopped after humbling Portugal and only kept a small region around Olivenza. OTL 1807, they were supposed to absorb all of Portugal and give Godoy a kingdom in the Algarves. In both of these wars, France had the upper hand over the rest of the world, so Spain probably could have gotten away with it as long as Nap remained on top. the presumption is that Nap doesn't try to take over Spain, so he doesn't get mired down there, and maybe he stays on top longer.

At that point, presuming the royal family is captured, Britain is going to make a play for Brazil, locking up the ports and establishing a protectorate. Angola and Brazil go together like peanut butter and jelly (angola was basically a colony of Brazil, which in turn was a colony of Portugal), so Britain probably doesn't separate them. control of the sea between them is a good way to keep the Brazilians in line. Britain probably takes over Mozambique. they don't really want it, but they want to block the Boer republics from having a port.

If the royal family escapes to Brazil, you see OTL. Presuming Nap stays on top long enough to have the Portugal merge with Spain become permanent, I see a much stronger Brazil than OTL. Although the war years saw Brazil improved immensely, the growth spurt halted abruptly with the court's return to Lisbon, and then reversed during the Pedro I rule and the regency period after Pedro gave up and returned to Portugal. Keep them, and the treasury, in Rio, you're going to see continued growth. You're going to see a stronger Brazilian empire (the former Portuguese empire, minus Portugal) than we saw the OTL Portuguese empire, minus Brazil. Therefore, Britain may not be in a position to kick the empire around as they did OTL. they could do it, but it would be a lot harder than it was OTL, which defeats the AHC.
 
If the UK takes them by the Early 1910s for example. I could see South Africa ending up absorbing them depending them. Thus you could see the "Greater South Africa" concept become a reality ITTL.
 
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