What is the most likely scenario where one European country ends up controlling all of the Americas until at least the late 1700s. How do two entire continents under one flag develop from there? The first part of this scenario is the challenge I pose, and it can be done by any means. The second part is a big nature vs nurture test for the western hemisphere pretty much. That is to say if North and South America had the same “nurture” as in the same colonial ruler. This is obviously very difficult but I don’t believe it’s impossible, so please indulge me if you will. My favorite idea for this is England winning the Hundred Years’ War while having iberia remain divided, but any scenarios are welcome.
AHC/WI: All of the Americas colonized by one country
- Thread starter odieluck
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Portugal with more land and population.
Map from @endersisus in this thread
IOTL it already managed to colonize a lot given its small size, with a bigger population base, it could certainly colonize all of the Americas save for some Native tribes in isolated regions (Patagonia, Northern Canada etc.)
Map from @endersisus in this thread
IOTL it already managed to colonize a lot given its small size, with a bigger population base, it could certainly colonize all of the Americas save for some Native tribes in isolated regions (Patagonia, Northern Canada etc.)
A united Iberian kingdom that ends up following in the steps of Spain and conquers all dense regions from Mesoamerica to the Andes, then with papal support, high emigration rates it ends up colonizing all accessible regions relatively quickly, maybe some small colonies of other countries exist but they are extinguished before growing too big.
In theory it's easy given the headstart that being first and having a strong foothold in the core region, but the issue might simply be justifying the existence of a system where colonists migrate in some many peripherical regions instead of populating the non-frontier regions especially in the aftermath of the epidemics.
In theory it's easy given the headstart that being first and having a strong foothold in the core region, but the issue might simply be justifying the existence of a system where colonists migrate in some many peripherical regions instead of populating the non-frontier regions especially in the aftermath of the epidemics.
Why not give Portugal all of Iberia? Better yet keep Portugal in Leon and then have Leon unite Spain with Lisbon as its capital. Maybe an early reconquista happens, it focuses on Indian Ocean trade, and america is discovered by accident when a ship is blown off course by the Brazil current?Portugal with more land and population.
Map from @endersisus in this thread
IOTL it already managed to colonize a lot given its small size, with a bigger population base, it could certainly colonize all of the Americas save for some Native tribes in isolated regions (Patagonia, Northern Canada etc.)
Another issue might be the restrictions that OTL Spain placed on people coming to the Americas, along with straight up not letting people from Aragon or Naples or its other possessions come over either iirc.
I'm assuming this should be fixeable with an earlier POD, right? How far back does the way Spain treated its constituent kingdoms go?
I would assume it’s from Christian Iberia being divided for a long time and each of those Kingdoms thus developing their own institutions. One example of another ramification of this was the Cortes Generales of Castile initially refusing to make Ferdinand King after Isabella died. Maybe keeping Alfonso the Great from dividing his realm might work?
As the map maker, the explanation is that this is the year 1300, Portugal will eventually unite Iberia in my timeline.
I glanced over your timeline and its very interesting. A few questions, however:
How do you get Portugal to show interest in the east coast of the modern USA and Canada in order to fulfill the condition that all of the Americas be under its control?
How do you ensure Portugal focuses on the Americas rather than the Indian Ocean?
Does Portugal divide up the Americas by small Captaincies like in Brazil or large Viceroyalties like Spain did OTL or what?
I also find the idea of a North African conquest as mentioned in your thread very interesting , and I think that's something that would have probably been attempted if the Reconquista was finished before the age of exploration.
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Maybe have Castille take portugal in 1383-1385? So by the time of oversea exploration the 2 would have been united for a while.
That’s a good option for the sake of control of the timeline without many other butterflies, but I think independent Spanish and Portuguese identities had developed by then to the point that if one took over the other, the other would want independence. That’s why I think the count of Portugal remaining within Leon would be the best option for this TL because then Portuguese is seen as just another dialect in the same way Aragonese or Galician is.
Don Carlos is less unstable and lives londer, inheriting Portugal, then the rest of Spain. This Iberian Union is more integrated and maybe there can be less restrictions on colonial settlement eventually. With Portugal and Spain united, you just have to get the British, French, Dutch, Nordics, and Russia out. By the time anyone with the interest and means to go colonising gets to it, the Americas should all be at least lightly claimed and settled by Spain (maybe they can recruit settlers from other Habsburg realms as well if they need it), even if its just a nominal claim, with possibly a bunch of allied native tribes in the area.
England: Maybe Mary I can have a son with Philip II, so ou get a Habsburg branch in Britain. This branch is uninterested on stepping on their cousin's toes in the new world. Maybe they can get an arrangement where English settlers are allowed to settle some parts of the Spanish Americas, but they never establish any formal colonies in the Americas, perhaps focusing more on expanding continental holdings in France. They can inherit Scotland at some point as well, so no Scottish attempts either.
France: Change the situation at home so that French kings are unwilling to spend money on colonisation. Maybe being encircled by Habsburgs makes them pour more money into continental wars, or fortifications in the Metropole. Could get embroiled in further conflict with Britain if the British Habsburgs are pushing claims in northern France. Maybe a few particularly pious kings decide to pour some money into a new Crusade or some missionary efforts in Africa or India or something. Maybe France can get lucky in India and be more occupied there.
Dutch: With the English firmly Catholic and Habsburg, the Dutch Revolt either fails or succeeds but goes much more poorly for the Dutch. Spain could hold onto more or all of the Spanish Netherlands, maybe some alt. events in the Revolt could result in the Seven Provinces fracturing and going their own ways, maybe some combination of the two. Maybe the Dutch Revolt still goes as OTL for some reason, but the Dutch have earlier and/or greater success in the East Indies, which siphons attention away from the Americas.
Nordics: Sweden can get into trouble with Russia and Denmark. They get effectively locked in the Baltic as a result. Norway is part of Denmark. Denmark either doesn't care to go to the Americas, or doesn't care to anatgonise half of Europe (Habsburgs in Britain, Spain, and HRE). Maybe it gets embroiled in conflict with Sweden that takes all its attention.
Russia: Delayed expansion to the Pacific coast, or whoever is in charge just decides Russia has enough land in Siberia without antagonising the aforementioned half of Europe. Could get into worse conflict with Sweden, PLC, and/or China too to suck up all its money.
England: Maybe Mary I can have a son with Philip II, so ou get a Habsburg branch in Britain. This branch is uninterested on stepping on their cousin's toes in the new world. Maybe they can get an arrangement where English settlers are allowed to settle some parts of the Spanish Americas, but they never establish any formal colonies in the Americas, perhaps focusing more on expanding continental holdings in France. They can inherit Scotland at some point as well, so no Scottish attempts either.
France: Change the situation at home so that French kings are unwilling to spend money on colonisation. Maybe being encircled by Habsburgs makes them pour more money into continental wars, or fortifications in the Metropole. Could get embroiled in further conflict with Britain if the British Habsburgs are pushing claims in northern France. Maybe a few particularly pious kings decide to pour some money into a new Crusade or some missionary efforts in Africa or India or something. Maybe France can get lucky in India and be more occupied there.
Dutch: With the English firmly Catholic and Habsburg, the Dutch Revolt either fails or succeeds but goes much more poorly for the Dutch. Spain could hold onto more or all of the Spanish Netherlands, maybe some alt. events in the Revolt could result in the Seven Provinces fracturing and going their own ways, maybe some combination of the two. Maybe the Dutch Revolt still goes as OTL for some reason, but the Dutch have earlier and/or greater success in the East Indies, which siphons attention away from the Americas.
Nordics: Sweden can get into trouble with Russia and Denmark. They get effectively locked in the Baltic as a result. Norway is part of Denmark. Denmark either doesn't care to go to the Americas, or doesn't care to anatgonise half of Europe (Habsburgs in Britain, Spain, and HRE). Maybe it gets embroiled in conflict with Sweden that takes all its attention.
Russia: Delayed expansion to the Pacific coast, or whoever is in charge just decides Russia has enough land in Siberia without antagonising the aforementioned half of Europe. Could get into worse conflict with Sweden, PLC, and/or China too to suck up all its money.
France finances Columbus and somehow ends with the same amount of dumb luck as the spanish, colonizing both the Mexica and Inca Empires
It still gets interested on the north american fur trade and sends the hughenotes to the coast of South America, but unlike IOTL the far richer France easily beats both the english and the portuguese from it's claimed territory and lets these territories be ruled by french vassals as part of the french network of native allies while they focus on the wealthiest areas of the continent
Soon after France undergoes it's own industrial revolution which makes it's power uncontestable in the New World and beyond
Thus utter french domination
It still gets interested on the north american fur trade and sends the hughenotes to the coast of South America, but unlike IOTL the far richer France easily beats both the english and the portuguese from it's claimed territory and lets these territories be ruled by french vassals as part of the french network of native allies while they focus on the wealthiest areas of the continent
Soon after France undergoes it's own industrial revolution which makes it's power uncontestable in the New World and beyond
Thus utter french domination
Control in this instance would be the inability of another country to colonize that area or it’s interior. So pretty much the latter option.
As shown with England, having different levels of autonomy or allowing different groups to have their own colonies made changes that kept them from all being the same, or like the mother country. Anyways, does the colonization exclude slaves and conscripted people? If you have the Habsburg dominions all included in this one country thing, rather than just starting with the Kingdom is Castile-Leon (and if you added the rest of the HRE to the mix) you might have the manpower and ships to colonize everywhere, but unlikely otherwise. I see it ended up like how the Danish and Norwegian kings did with trade from Greenland, or the Japanese with trade with Koreans and Europeans. You keep it to a couple ships and only your own people can trade, leading to luxuries skyrocketing in price and giving yourself wealth, while not transporting a large amount of useful items.
There is no way it can feasibly be done, mate. Some power is bound to come and take neglected colonies in America eventually. No country will be able to hold the entire continent nor it will want to. Colonies can be expensive and Portugal would be much more interested in their Asian colonies.
You are right. But just out of pure interest magically give Portugal a huge interest in the Americas and the ability to hold it all down somehow. How does the continent develop in this scenario?
Have Portugal insist on their rights over the Philippines, I think that might lead to Portugal losing Brazil to the Spanish.
You know, that's an interesting premise. I actually wondered why they didn't divide the world by regions instead of imaginary lines. Like, for example, America to Castile, Africa and Asia to Portugal, and Italy and the rest of the Mediterranean lands to Aragon, if we are to include all the Iberian Kingdoms.