AHC/WI: "Abrahamic" East Asia

So, there have been a ton of threads on butterflying away Christianity and/or Islam on this forum. And these mostly result in the Mediterranean religious atmosphere becoming basically East Asia, with pagan cults for the masses and esoteric intellectual philosophy for the elite, bound together by some Greek metaphysics of one kind or another.

So I was wondering about a possible reversal of that trend: What would have to happen to create an East Asia which has a far more universalist worldview, one where religion and philosophy are more closely bonded as part of a unified whole, and are far more exclusive in their doctrines? And what would such an East Asia look like?
 
Maybe Muslim Turks conquer China? I feel like the rest of the Sinosphere would quickly convert in such a case.
 
The most orthodox Confucian state in history, Joseon Korea, already fits the bill to a significant extent. Another option is to have a Theravada Buddhist orthodoxy to be established in East Asia as it was in Sri Lanka or Myanmar. Still tough, admittedly.

Maybe Muslim Turks conquer China? I feel like the rest of the Sinosphere would quickly convert in such a case.
Just like Thailand or Sri Lanka quickly converted to Islam when Muslim Turks conquered North India?
 
Maybe Muslim Turks conquer China? I feel like the rest of the Sinosphere would quickly convert in such a case.

The most orthodox Confucian state in history, Joseon Korea, already fits the bill to a significant extent. Another option is to have a Theravada Buddhist orthodoxy to be established in East Asia as it was in Sri Lanka or Myanmar. Still tough, admittedly.

Hm. I was thinking... older. I mean, like, Joseon Korea sounds like something along the path I was thinking.

But I mean, like, Christianity somehow became a large and dominating force in the Mediterranean, assimilating all the philosophical traditions into itself while remaining separate from the pagans, and then all across the Roman Empire, forming an institution and unified doctrine that would remain in place for centuries. How would one have something like it happen to, say, China? Like, is it possible for something like Joseon Confucianism to become a thing throughout all of the region, assimilating some things but remaining organized and universalist in scope?
 
Just like Thailand or Sri Lanka quickly converted to Islam when Muslim Turks conquered North India?
More like, how the Koreans, Vietnamese, and Japanese converted to Buddhism when it penetrated into China. Much of Southeast Asia converted OTL, and they didn't even border a major Muslim power.
 
More like, how the Koreans, Vietnamese, and Japanese converted to Buddhism when it penetrated into China
Yes, because there was no organized religion in any of those places before the introduction of Chinese civilization. That isn't the case with a Timurid conquest or somesuch. Consider how reluctant Korea was to adopt even Wang Yangming's Confucianism.

Much of Southeast Asia converted OTL
That didn't really have that much to do with Islam in India.
 
Hm. I was thinking... older. I mean, like, Joseon Korea sounds like something along the path I was thinking.

But I mean, like, Christianity somehow became a large and dominating force in the Mediterranean, assimilating all the philosophical traditions into itself while remaining separate from the pagans, and then all across the Roman Empire, forming an institution and unified doctrine that would remain in place for centuries. How would one have something like it happen to, say, China? Like, is it possible for something like Joseon Confucianism to become a thing throughout all of the region, assimilating some things but remaining organized and universalist in scope?
I'm not too sure that it would be possible without some level of exclusionary religion.

So a good example for this would be Tibetan Buddhism. Whilst it did achieve this status in Tibet, it never managed to dominate china the sandbox way that Abrahamic faiths did in Europe even during the Yuan dynasty which made it the state religion and held tax exemptions for its practitioners.

If your religion is not exclusionary, it can't fully dominate in a way that permeates society. Even Joseon Korea had Buddhism and Taoism survive, alongside various shamanistic beliefs. If you are part of a non-exclusionary religion, it is advantageous from the point of view of a believer and pragmatist to be part of multiple religions just as today someone in china may answer that they are Buddhist, Confucian and Taoist, of how Japanese may find themselves praying to Hindu deities. Not only are you part of many circles, but you maximise your chance of being "correct" whilst also being a member of any religion linked rebellion/authority that you need. "X? He has been a devout Confucian/Taoist for years! He will be a perfect addition to put down/support the rebellion!"

So the native beliefs do not well fit what you want, and I believe can't.

Honestly, I think you seriously need an abrahamic belief. If not Islam, Manichaeism is also a good candidate and could have thrived at times in China.
 
Honestly, I think you seriously need an abrahamic belief. If not Islam, Manichaeism is also a good candidate and could have thrived at times in China.

Hm. Is there a possibility for an exclusionary religion to begin closer to China before Christ? Are there any non-Abrahamic beliefs that could have become exclusionary a la the Abrahamic religions?
 
Hm. Is there a possibility for an exclusionary religion to begin closer to China before Christ? Are there any non-Abrahamic beliefs that could have become exclusionary a la the Abrahamic religions?
Not without a very early POD. Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism went through a hell of a lot to be entrenched and survive through all the internal strife of Chinese civilisation. All of their contenders that I can think of also were not exclusionary nor had any reason to be.
 
Not without a very early POD. Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism went through a hell of a lot to be entrenched and survive through all the internal strife of Chinese civilisation. All of their contenders that I can think of also were not exclusionary nor had any reason to be.

Hm. How early are we talking here?
 
So, there have been a ton of threads on butterflying away Christianity and/or Islam on this forum. And these mostly result in the Mediterranean religious atmosphere becoming basically East Asia, with pagan cults for the masses and esoteric intellectual philosophy for the elite, bound together by some Greek metaphysics of one kind or another.

So I was wondering about a possible reversal of that trend: What would have to happen to create an East Asia which has a far more universalist worldview, one where religion and philosophy are more closely bonded as part of a unified whole, and are far more exclusive in their doctrines? And what would such an East Asia look like?

Christianity is pretty successful in South Korea nowadays.
 
Honestly, I think you seriously need an abrahamic belief.
Consider Theravada Buddhism in Sri Lanka and mainland Southeast Asia, which also established itself as an exclusionary faith generally intolerant of other religions - see, for example, Bayinnaung building Buddhist preaching halls on top of mosques, the regular Sinhalese reference to Tamils as 'heretics' with 'false beliefs' who could justifiably be attacked by Buddhists, and the denigration of animism and their reduction into spirits subject to the Buddha. Theravada Buddhism in these regions also became increasingly less tolerant of other forms of Buddhism, with the government strictly enforcing a Buddhist orthodoxy on the clergy and by extension the population.
 
Consider Theravada Buddhism in Sri Lanka and mainland Southeast Asia, which also established itself as an exclusionary faith generally intolerant of other religions - see, for example, Bayinnaung building Buddhist preaching halls on top of mosques, the regular Sinhalese reference to Tamils as 'heretics' with 'false beliefs' who could justifiably be attacked by Buddhists, and the denigration of animism and their reduction into spirits subject to the Buddha. Theravada Buddhism in these regions also became increasingly less tolerant of other forms of Buddhism, with the government strictly enforcing a Buddhist orthodoxy on the clergy and by extension the population.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that East Asia didn't not have periods where usually non exclusionary religions acted in such a way, but it isn't comparable to the general utter lack of religious competition that the Abrahamic religions faced in regions where they were dominant. Where a Hindu population would for instance survive for millenia in Sri-Lanka, similar populations of indigenous paganism or even a migratory paganism could not have survived in any European pagan country to the extent that Hinduism has amongst the Tamils. South east Asia in general has not only historically had multiple religions coincide with therevadan buddhism, but has experienced small scale syncretism which has continued on to this day with religions like Cao Dai.

As said, sure moments of persecution existed, just as they have all across the sinosphere too, but still these religions never became fully exclusionary and faiths diametrically opposed still managed tand survive and thrive across south east Asia.
 
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