AHC: White Boers form a nation after 1994

CalBear

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_South_Africa
https://africacheck.org/factsheets/guide-rape-statistics-in-south-africa/

South Africa has some of the highest rates of sexual assault on the planet as it is, civil war conditions would likely make things worse.



So it was poorly worded I'm sorry but don't pretend that in a civil war scenario rapes and other such crimes wouldn't happen, and it wouldn't be limited to on side or the other. Racial tensions would be at a boiling point especially in an all-out civil war and such actions would be common to both sides, and they would subsequently use it as propaganda against the other.
Yet not one single word about the violence and sexual assault all being directed at White women.

I don't have any illusion about the level of violence associated with war, civil or international. I doubted, and still do doubt, that White women would be the sole target.

I am REALLY trying not to come to the conclusion that you keep pushing me toward, but you are not helping one little bit.
 
Well such an event would have repercussions far away, of course.

I doubt that the U.N or more importantly The U.S and most of Europe would recognise such a state.

Sanctions would be a first step though implementing them would be ...interesting.

And the 'white exodus' which reached even here in NZ would possibly never happen ...sanctions again, and how many would take their chance to stay in SA if they perceive that they have a place to stay which is familiar?

Regarding rape I believe that like every other crime it would be done on both sides, and escalate, as sadly it always does
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_South_Africa
https://africacheck.org/factsheets/guide-rape-statistics-in-south-africa/

South Africa has some of the highest rates of sexual assault on the planet as it is, civil war conditions would likely make things worse.



So it was poorly worded I'm sorry but don't pretend that in a civil war scenario rapes and other such crimes wouldn't happen, and it wouldn't be limited to on side or the other. Racial tensions would be at a boiling point especially in an all-out civil war and such actions would be common to both sides, and they would subsequently use it as propaganda against the other.

Yet not one single word about the violence and sexual assault all being directed at White women.

I don't have any illusion about the level of violence associated with war, civil or international. I doubted, and still do doubt, that White women would be the sole target.

I am REALLY trying not to come to the conclusion that you keep pushing me toward, but you are not helping one little bit.

South Africa certainly has awful levels of sexual assault and rape, but as CalBear correctly points out white women are not disproportionately victims. In fact, it is likely that poor black women are the ones who suffer from the highest levels of sexual assault (as poor black people are more likely to be victims of crime).

In a TL with a SA civil war, there will be higher levels of violence but I'm still not sure we'll see black mobs lurking the streets looking for white women to rape.
 
They could probably carve something out in Northern Cape without too many blacks for their liking. Of course, if they couldn't cleanse whatever area they wanted of blacks, they'd probably be forced to basically build their own new country in the middle of nowhere, although that might not be an issue to the Boers. If they put up enough of a fuss, the black government would probably be able to get a few thousand blacks and coloureds to move off whatever farmland the Boers wanted if it meant staying in power. The only problem with the Northern Cape is that the only land worth having is the Orange valley near Upington, where most of the province's population is, and the diamond mines around Kimberly, and there's no way the government's giving that up.

If there is a violent Balkanization that happens, the Boers would probably be able to expel the black population on the Highveld. Response to any foreign intervention attempts would likely be violent after the disaster that happened in Rhodesia, which the Boers regard as a result of foreign meddling.

I'm not sure about that. The Highveld is fairly urbanised and I'm not sure the SADF would fancy urban warfare in order to ethnically cleanse the area.
 
What if Boers from their own White majority nation in South Africa?

Firstly the term 'Boer' is fairly archaic, it's not really used to describe Afrikaners anymore.

Secondly, as others have pointed out there is nowhere that whites in general or Afrikaners in particular form a majority so creating a white-majority state will be difficult.

Also, not all Afrikaners will necessarily even be in favour of creating a white 'Volkstaat'.

The claim is made in the book, Apartheid's Friends, that in the 1960s Hendrik Verwoerd was planning to partition South Africa into a white state and a black state, but the National Party was opposed to this, leading to his assassination by Dmitri Tsafendas. No prepared text of Verwoerd's speech from that day has ever been found apparently, so perhaps there is some truth to the claim.

That could be your POD there.
 
Firstly the term 'Boer' is fairly archaic, it's not really used to describe Afrikaners anymore.

Secondly, as others have pointed out there is nowhere that whites in general or Afrikaners in particular form a majority so creating a white-majority state will be difficult.

Also, not all Afrikaners will necessarily even be in favour of creating a white 'Volkstaat'.

The claim is made in the book, Apartheid's Friends, that in the 1960s Hendrik Verwoerd was planning to partition South Africa into a white state and a black state, but the National Party was opposed to this, leading to his assassination by Dmitri Tsafendas. No prepared text of Verwoerd's speech from that day has ever been found apparently, so perhaps there is some truth to the claim.

That could be your POD there.
Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking of, this notion went way, way back in apartheid SA.
 
If this state was attempted to be formed by whites on their own against a mostly unified black population they could have maybe done this pre 1990 but if they attempted to after Mandela takes power they may have the best trained troops but they are massively outnumbered and the SANDF wouldent have enough guns and uniforms to give the masses of volunteers they would have from a population who has a chance to get revenge for hundreds of years of repression.

The only other time i see this happening is if South Africa full on collapses into ethnic balkanisation and even then does the infrastructure exist in the cape to accommodate millions of city dwelling whites from gauteng. If it did happen it would probably contain a fraction of the pre collapse white population.

So fairly unlikely post collapse of apartheid and only possible if South Africa Balkanises and the black support is split between different factions.
 
Well, IIRC there had long been a discussion of "total apartheid" in ASA in which the races truly separated and all formed their own distinct nations. Also, I recall that the Zulu for awhile wanted their own independent enclave free of both the ANC majority and the white minority.

Wait, I want to know about that. Why did the Zulu want their own enclave? Would it have been more significant than a Bantustan? What region would it have encompassed?
 
What if Mitchner's scenario in the covenant happened. Black majority rule for three out of the four provinces. A Afrikaner/coloured state in the Cape, with the English if they wanted too? Mandela might just let folks go. Buthelezi had talked about ethnic enclaves.
 

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
The idea actually exists.

1000px-Volkstaat%E2%80%93VF.svg.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkstaat

Thinking outside the box for a moment, how about if the Boers emigrate en-masse and set up their own city state at Walvis Bay before it gets absorbed back into Namibia proper.

With a population of only 100,000 compared to around 2.4 million South African Boers, they could easily take control of the area.

Trouble is, I don'rt know if this would be possible.

Regards filers.
 
Thinking outside the box for a moment, how about if the Boers emigrate en-masse and set up their own city state at Walvis Bay before it gets absorbed back into Namibia proper.

With a population of only 100,000 compared to around 2.4 million South African Boers, they could easily take control of the area.

Trouble is, I don'rt know if this would be possible.

Regards filers.

That whole area is just straight up desert. Sand dunes and all. There's only 100 000 people there because that's likely all the people that can live there.

2.4 million people is just under the population of Dubai, so unless an ungodly quantity of oil is found offshore there's nothing that can support that many people living in the middle of the desert.
 
WI whites dominate ports and the most lucrative industries like banking?
They could base their businesses in one or two ports that had few natural resources and make their profits from import-export.
 
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