AHC: Whig Concept of Presidency Triumphant

The Whig Party's chief unifying factor was opposition to the powerful presidency of Andrew Jackson, and the belief that the President should only faithfully execute the laws, and generally do what congressional leaders (such as Henry Clay) said. Now, considering that the Whigs were rather unsuccessful as a political party OTL, and they only really had four years and one month with legitimate Whigs in office, it remains to be seen if more successful Whigs could achieve this end. In fact, had Henry Clay won the presidency, I could very well see him abandoning all talk of congressional supremacy and trying to rule like Jackson.

Your challenge is to have, with a POD after the presidency of Andrew Jackson, a situation arise which pretty much lasts until the present day in which Congress is generally seen as superior to the President, who plays a much smaller role in shaping national policy.
 
The biggest problem with this challenge, IMO, is that the Constitution grants the President an enormous amount of power. All it takes is for a single president to decide to actually use it. So the best way to make the President subservient to Congress is to amend the Constitution itself.

There has to be some kind of scandal or terrible event that makes people lose faith not only in the president, but in the office of the presidency itself. Losing the Civil War could do it, especially if people decide to pin all the blame on Lincoln.

Another, later option, is an idea used in Jello_Biafra's Reds! timeline. The PoD is in the 1880s, and the US ends up getting dragged into an ATL version of WWI right from the beginning, and experiences similar trauma that Europe suffered IOTL (albeit on a smaller scale). The war is generally viewed as a mistake, and the President is blamed for it. This allows congressional leaders to push a "Congressional Government" amendment, which sets up a semi-presidential system with the Speaker of the House serving as "First Secretary".
 
The biggest problem with this challenge, IMO, is that the Constitution grants the President an enormous amount of power. All it takes is for a single president to decide to actually use it. So the best way to make the President subservient to Congress is to amend the Constitution itself.

There has to be some kind of scandal or terrible event that makes people lose faith not only in the president, but in the office of the presidency itself. Losing the Civil War could do it, especially if people decide to pin all the blame on Lincoln.
Could the Republicans of the 1860s pull that against Andrew Johnson? They certainly had the majorities to do so. If not Johnson, and going by your alternate Civil War idea, how about President McClellan? He seems like he could make Congress angry enough. The only problem with these is that they might just settle for impeachment.

Hm.

Maybe Lincoln chooses Benjamin Butler as his running mate for reelection and dies as OTL. Butler is radical enough to avoid being impeached, but he alienates all of the moderates, and has various corruption scandals in his administration much worse than Grant's. Eventually enough of the GOP, fearing that their president is leading them to destruction, decides to combine with the Democrats (who are badly beaten and willing to do anything to stop Butler) to amend the Constitution to abridge his power?
 
Could the Republicans of the 1860s pull that against Andrew Johnson? They certainly had the majorities to do so. If not Johnson, and going by your alternate Civil War idea, how about President McClellan? He seems like he could make Congress angry enough. The only problem with these is that they might just settle for impeachment.

Hm.

Maybe Lincoln chooses Benjamin Butler as his running mate for reelection and dies as OTL. Butler is radical enough to avoid being impeached, but he alienates all of the moderates, and has various corruption scandals in his administration much worse than Grant's. Eventually enough of the GOP, fearing that their president is leading them to destruction, decides to combine with the Democrats (who are badly beaten and willing to do anything to stop Butler) to amend the Constitution to abridge his power?

I can't believe I didn't think of Johnson. Yes, that would be perfect, and the Civil War is perhaps the most traumatic event in American history (more American casualties than WWI and WWII combined). I could easily see the radical Republicans impeaching Johnson, and then holding that up as proof that the president's powers need to be limited. They could even play up Lincoln's martyr status, saying that the President needs to be free to focus on the nation's defense (while avoiding any mention of his more excessive domestic policies).

They could set up a system where the President would have power over foreign affairs and the military (basically a glorified Secretary of State+Commander-in-Chief), while the Speaker of the House and Congress ran domestic affairs. This would also empower the House over the Senate, which would be useful for keeping the less populous old Confederate states down.

They could go ahead and make Seward president. He would basically be doing the same thing he did under Lincoln, but he'd be working out of the Oval Office.
 
I can't believe I didn't think of Johnson. Yes, that would be perfect, and the Civil War is perhaps the most traumatic event in American history (more American casualties than WWI and WWII combined). I could easily see the radical Republicans impeaching Johnson, and then holding that up as proof that the president's powers need to be limited. They could even play up Lincoln's martyr status, saying that the President needs to be free to focus on the nation's defense (while avoiding any mention of his more excessive domestic policies).

They could set up a system where the President would have power over foreign affairs and the military (basically a glorified Secretary of State+Commander-in-Chief), while the Speaker of the House and Congress ran domestic affairs. This would also empower the House over the Senate, which would be useful for keeping the less populous old Confederate states down.

They could go ahead and make Seward president. He would basically be doing the same thing he did under Lincoln, but he'd be working out of the Oval Office.
Good ideas.

Now, let's see how we can amend the Constitution to accomplish this:

Section 2.

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.
He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.
The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.
Section 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.
I suppose taking the appointment power out of the President's hands would dramatically weaken his political power; he would no longer be the king of the spoils system. It would also make the cabinet loyal to Congress instead of the President. Since battles over appointments were the official cause of Andrew Johnson's impeachment, this seems like a likely amendment for them to pass.
 
Good ideas.

Now, let's see how we can amend the Constitution to accomplish this:

I suppose taking the appointment power out of the President's hands would dramatically weaken his political power; he would no longer be the king of the spoils system. It would also make the cabinet loyal to Congress instead of the President. Since battles over appointments were the official cause of Andrew Johnson's impeachment, this seems like a likely amendment for them to pass.

Taking away the president's appointment power seems like the Also, some kind of special position for the Speaker of the House would probably be on the agenda (maybe make him part of the Cabinet?).
 
Taking away the president's appointment power seems like the Also, some kind of special position for the Speaker of the House would probably be on the agenda (maybe make him part of the Cabinet?).
Wouldn't the Senate try to balance out the power of the Speaker? So the President Pro-Tempore might merge with the majority leader position at this time and get power.
 
This is an interesting theory but I'm curious how functional people think a US government of this type could be. I may be mistaken, but wouldn't it make the US look more like the Articles of Confederation era? And I know that enough people then thought it was a bad idea to write a new constitution. Also, given how gridlocked Congress can become, does anyone think it wouldn't be long before either a) the Constitution is re-amended to give the President more power or b) a new consititution is drafted? And if the Cabinet is loyal to Congress, I can see the government being even more sectionalized and divided then it is now. The Department of the Treasury loyal to Congressman Smith, Department of Justice loyal to Senator Jones, Department of the Interior divided between Congressman Franklin and Senator Baker, etc.
 
This is an interesting theory but I'm curious how functional people think a US government of this type could be. I may be mistaken, but wouldn't it make the US look more like the Articles of Confederation era? And I know that enough people then thought it was a bad idea to write a new constitution. Also, given how gridlocked Congress can become, does anyone think it wouldn't be long before either a) the Constitution is re-amended to give the President more power or b) a new consititution is drafted? And if the Cabinet is loyal to Congress, I can see the government being even more sectionalized and divided then it is now. The Department of the Treasury loyal to Congressman Smith, Department of Justice loyal to Senator Jones, Department of the Interior divided between Congressman Franklin and Senator Baker, etc.
Congress can be gridlocked with the President, and OTL can be gridlocked even when both houses are controlled by the same party because of the president.
 
This is an interesting theory but I'm curious how functional people think a US government of this type could be. I may be mistaken, but wouldn't it make the US look more like the Articles of Confederation era? And I know that enough people then thought it was a bad idea to write a new constitution. Also, given how gridlocked Congress can become, does anyone think it wouldn't be long before either a) the Constitution is re-amended to give the President more power or b) a new consititution is drafted? And if the Cabinet is loyal to Congress, I can see the government being even more sectionalized and divided then it is now. The Department of the Treasury loyal to Congressman Smith, Department of Justice loyal to Senator Jones, Department of the Interior divided between Congressman Franklin and Senator Baker, etc.


Wouldn't the Senate try to balance out the power of the Speaker? So the President Pro-Tempore might merge with the majority leader position at this time and get power.

If we're using the 1865 scenario, the Senate would be less of a problem than you guys might think. The Republican Party would want to give more power to the House, in order to further weaken the mainly Democratic south (which would have equal representation in the Senate). For the Republican Party leadership, it's very simple: Strong House+Weak Senate=Republican dominance.

Taking that into consideration, as well as the fact that President pro tempore is a worthless position anyway, I would be surprised if this semi-presidential US didn't elevate the Speaker of the House to a sort of "Prime Minister" position. If gridlock is a concern, they could also take away the President's power to veto.
 
Good ideas.

Now, let's see how we can amend the Constitution to accomplish this:
Not Sections, because it would need to be an Amendment.
The threshold for Congressional actions against President is:
Impeachment - simple majority of House, 2/3 of Senate
Passing a bill over Presidential veto: 2/3 in both House and Senate
Constitutional amendment: 2/3 in both House and Senate, then ratification by 3/4 States.
Amendments are hard: none in 61 years after 12th, and then none in 43 years before 16th.
But 3 amendments passed in 5 years. 13 to 15.
And 14th has a lot of clauses. Definition of citizenship, "Privileges, Immunities, Due Process, Equal Protection", but also decreasing the representation for disfranchisement, disqualifying Confederates from office, forbidding payment of Confederate debts and compensation for slaves but affirming Union debts.
It was about the same time that the Congress diminished Johnson´s powers by passing Tenure of Office Act, over veto.
Since overruling veto takes 2/3 of both Houses, the same as proposing an Amendment, they might just as well incorporate Tenure of Office in 14th Amendment.
What would a 14th Amendment look like with a Section including Tenure of Office?
 
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