AHC: Weimar Republic Survives after Hitler is chancellor

With a POD no earlier than 30th January 1933 (The date Hitler became chancellor), have a democratic Weimar Republic survive.

Bonus points if WW2 happens anyway
 

NoMommsen

Donor
IMO : ASB

You would need :
- Reichswehr HEAVILY dissapointed by Hitler (though maybe possible, if he shows friendlieness to Röhms ideas of overtaking the Reichswehr)
- a MUCH stronger will to resistance by the SPD as well as of the trade unions - and their will to cooperate with the commies
- a will of the commies to work together with the SPD and trade-unions (as a "take-over" by the commies is already ASB in itself at this time. Remember : about 30% workless.)
- a will of the pissed Reichswehr to work together with SPD and trade-unions and commies

All of these and esp. in combination after Hitler takes office ... with the quick reaction of the NSDAP to "purge" the whole country of any kind of opposition ... ASB.
Even if Hitler by some reason gets "removed" quickly it would end in first a kind of civil war with its outcome
a) a military-based dictatorship of Hindenburg, followed by someone with a similar mind, perhaps Schleicher, who planned such thing already at the change of 1932/33, as "chancellor"
or
b) in a communist kind of regime (in case the left manages somehow to work together)

Democracy in Germany in 1933 was an (almost) dead horse for at least a decade.

Btw, you would also need the "Entente"-powers (later "Allies") to actually support whatever kind of german goverment would result from this, to support "Germany" as such. Given esp. the french and polish attitude to Germany as such (regardless its kind of goverment) : as ASB
 
Hitler fumbles the Night of the Long Knives, and SA gunmen avenge Roehm by killing Hitler and Goering. There's some pulling and hauling as the SA is suppressed by the Heer. In the wake of the violence, the Heer and Hindenburg's cronies make von Papen Chancellor. With Hitler dead, the SA broken, and the remaining NSDAP leaders squabbling, the Nazis fade. Some of the Nazi apparatchiks bail out, including Muller and Nebe, helping Papen and the Heer displace other Nazi officials. The Enabling Act lapses.

New elections greatly reduce the Nazi presence in the Reichstag, allowing a new coalition government to form. Hindenburg dies, and is replaced after an election with Lettow-Vorbeck.
 
Maybe if the Nazis are caught red handed trying to burn down the Reichstag and several key members are arrested. Hitler tries to distance himself from the plot, but it remains a stain on his reputation.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Well, neither of this proposals would result in a
"democratic Weimar Republic"
as the OP demands. Not even in the longer term (10-20 years) and esp. not in a Weimar Republic involved in a WW 2.
(... only if something happens, that totally different from WW2 as we knew it and much later.)

As said : for Germany the "democratic model" was very much out of fashion than.
 
Well, neither of this proposals would result in a
"democratic Weimar Republic"
as the OP demands. Not even in the longer term (10-20 years) and esp. not in a Weimar Republic involved in a WW 2.
(... only if something happens, that totally different from WW2 as we knew it and much later.)

As said : for Germany the "democratic model" was very much out of fashion than.
ceb9cac8409622d24a69792dca49c110201e16087bcc1a17f1d5086511c481e2.jpg
True. First, you need to remove the stabbed in the back legend that stripped the government of a great deal of it's legitimacy. Second, improve Hindenburg's health so he can be there to reign Hitler in and/or dissolve the Reichstag. Finally, stop Schleicher's work programs that helped Hitler immensely (let Hitler, rather than Schleicher follow von Papen). Hitler falters, Schleicher backstabs and undermines Hitler like he did everyone else resulting in Hitler's dismissal. Schleicher himself without allies never assumes the post, Hindenburg dies, and a more liberal president is elected stopping this nonsense of rule by decree. The Social Democrats are able to reduce Versailles payments and smooth over relations with France, trade with the Soviets and Chinese save their economy, and after a generation democratic support becomes ingrained.
 

samcster94

Banned
Remember, Weimar was already under some kind of emergency rule since 1930. This is like asking Putin to restore the chaos of early Yeltsin era Russia(that decade did have some Weimar-esque traits tbh) except MUCH worse.
 
Perhaps the Reichstag fire doesn't happen and as a consequence the NSDAP and DNVP don't gain as many seats an in OTL. In that scenario the KPD wouldn't be banned (no fire decrees) and Hitler wouldn't have enough votes for the Enabling Act. If the centre party sense weakness perhaps they too wouldn't back the Enabling Act. This failure would stiffen resistance from the Trade Unions and other sections of society.

From here Hitler is essentially stuck with the same problems as previous chancellors. He could fall in any number of ways.

Hitler could end up just becoming the puppet of the conservatives, or more likely the SA violence would go out of control even faster than OTL. That would give Hindenburg an excuse to remove Hitler. I have no idea what would happen then.

I've got to agree though, best case seems to be a return to the years of semi-dictatorship. At least until Hindenburg dies.
 
Simple.
No Reichstag Fire
This would remove the impetus for the infamous Fire Decree and the Enabling Act. Both of which destroyed the Weimar Republic.
Then the delayed parliamentary elections of March 1933 see the Nazis lose more seats and Hitler is promptly replaced.
 
Simple.
No Reichstag Fire
This would remove the impetus for the infamous Fire Decree and the Enabling Act. Both of which destroyed the Weimar Republic.
Then the delayed parliamentary elections of March 1933 see the Nazis lose more seats and Hitler is promptly replaced.
I don't think the Nazi's would lose seats in March 1933 even without the Reichstag fire. I doubt they'd be able to pass the Enabling Act though
 

NoMommsen

Donor
@GlobalHumanism IIRC the election was deliberatly not postponed, though it was thought of after the fire.

The Reichstag Fire decree of 29.Feb.1933 (Decree of the Reichspresident for the protection of the people and the state) was only an icing on the cake.

The "Decree of the Reichspresident for the protection of the German people" of 4.Feb. and its subsequent executional decrees of 4., and 2 further on 7.February already eliminated any political, what we call "civil" rights.

The decree of 18.February only specified the according paragraph of the constitution and specified as well as increased the heights of penatlies.

The needed instruments to "attune" the numbers of Members of the Reichstag present for the passing of the enabling act were already there prior to the "Reichstags Fire". The already planned for muddling of the "rules of procedure" of the Reichstag necessary to pass the Enabling act woold also have proceeded as IOLT.
 
Well, neither of this proposals would result in a
"democratic Weimar Republic"
as the OP demands. Not even in the longer term (10-20 years) and esp. not in a Weimar Republic involved in a WW 2.
(... only if something happens, that totally different from WW2 as we knew it and much later.)

As said : for Germany the "democratic model" was very much out of fashion than.

My suggestion included new Reichstag elections, forming a new government under parliamentary rules, and election of a new President. How is this not democratic? Obviously, there is a transition period between Hitler's death and the restoration of normal politics, but that would be required in any TL.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Whatever kind of regime would take over after Hitler, it will have to have the backing of the Reichswehr. ... not a fan of democratic rules and esp. not of a parliament at all. And for whoever takes power or will be given power by the Reichspresident (guess what kind of man or grpuo this would be ...)
the already passed Enabling act would be a heavens gift.
And be used to the full.

It was the wet dream of Schleicher being enabled to change constitution by decree (what was possible under the Enabling act), to remove parliamentary control. He planned on that in late 1932, even got some juristical opinions, that stated it could even be possible only by the power of article 48 (Reichspresidential emergency acts).
Even Brüning had similar thoughts like postponing parliament (almost) indefinitly - or again and again - ruling only by Art.48 emergency acts to get rid of parliament.

Even the "reds", if for whatever ASB-sized butterfly they manage to get into power, would happily use the enabling act to change the constitution their way.

Sry, but ... I don't see any election of a true parliament happening for at least the 4 years of the enabling act.
After the enabling act there will be no parliament, worth the name for many years.
 
Hitler fumbles the Night of the Long Knives, and SA gunmen avenge Roehm by killing Hitler and Goering. There's some pulling and hauling as the SA is suppressed by the Heer. In the wake of the violence, the Heer and Hindenburg's cronies make von Papen Chancellor. With Hitler dead, the SA broken, and the remaining NSDAP leaders squabbling, the Nazis fade. Some of the Nazi apparatchiks bail out, including Muller and Nebe, helping Papen and the Heer displace other Nazi officials. The Enabling Act lapses.

New elections greatly reduce the Nazi presence in the Reichstag, allowing a new coalition government to form. Hindenburg dies, and is replaced after an election with Lettow-Vorbeck.
It's a interesting suggestion for timeline
 
Top