AHC: Wank Respect

For those who don't know, Respect was a leftist party that grew out of opposition to the Iraq War in 2004. Last month it formally deregistered as a political party with the electoral commission. It didn't ever poll particularly highly on a national level, yet it was able to secure some relatively good results in its early existence. Its most prominent member, former Labour MP George Galloway, was elected to parliament twice for different constituencies under the party banner, and they also secured some pretty strong results elsewhere, almost winning an MEP in London in 2004, and securing a few second place results in Labour strongholds at the 2005 election. Looking at it, it has several of the features needed for a relatively successful anti establishment insurgency:

-Being perceived to be on the 'right side' of public opinion on several important issues in the time it was at its strongest, first the Iraq War, then the financial crisis

-Having a strong movement (in the opposition to the Iraq War) to provide a base for support

-Having a well focused vote (particularly in areas with large muslim population) to partially overcome the inequalities of FPTP

All it would need would be a charismatic and well known public figurehead. Galloway seems like a bit of a crackpot to most people. But this was a time when Ken Livingstone was a relatively popular Mayor of London. If he could be persuaded to join, which doesn't sound totally ASB as he only stopped being an independent and rejoined Labour earlier in the same month that Respect was founded, they could have the figurehead they need.

So my question to mark the party's demise, is how far could they go, if everything that could plausibly go right for them does?
 
Last edited:
Dammit, did someone leak my notes!?!?

I'm actually planning to write a small timeline where Respect becomes a significant minor party in British politics (basically as influential as the pre-coalition Lib Dems). It's in the planning stages, and I still need to flesh out some of the details, particularly with Scotland. Whilst I don't want to give too much away the two PoDs that I'm using are:

1) The proposed electoral alliance with the Greens goes through, which allows them to cooperate and grow in tandem with each other, keeps Monbiot in Respect, and lays the foundation for the Green parties to fully affiliate down the line (with some dissenters splitting off to form the Independent Greens).

2) A bunch of Labour MPs, dubbed the New Gang of Four, decide to throw their lot in with Respect, instead of just Galloway. The most prominent member is Michael Meacher, who has over three decades of experience as an MP, had served on the front bench, and had a reputation as a solid environmentalist (even if I personally disagree with some of his views), which helps build ties with the Greens. As a result Galloway doesn't become the sole face of Respect (which does wonders for their long-term credibility), and Respect come out of the 2005 General Election with 3MPs, gaining a few more through defections. This gives them a good starting point, and over the next decade expand rapidly, particularly in the wake of the collapse of the Lib Dems and Scottish Labour.
 
Dammit, did someone leak my notes!?!?

I'm actually planning to write a small timeline where Respect becomes a significant minor party in British politics (basically as influential as the pre-coalition Lib Dems). It's in the planning stages, and I still need to flesh out some of the details, particularly with Scotland. Whilst I don't want to give too much away the two PoDs that I'm using are:

1) The proposed electoral alliance with the Greens goes through, which allows them to cooperate and grow in tandem with each other, keeps Monbiot in Respect, and lays the foundation for the Green parties to fully affiliate down the line (with some dissenters splitting off to form the Independent Greens).

2) A bunch of Labour MPs, dubbed the New Gang of Four, decide to throw their lot in with Respect, instead of just Galloway. The most prominent member is Michael Meacher, who has over three decades of experience as an MP, had served on the front bench, and had a reputation as a solid environmentalist (even if I personally disagree with some of his views), which helps build ties with the Greens. As a result Galloway doesn't become the sole face of Respect (which does wonders for their long-term credibility), and Respect come out of the 2005 General Election with 3MPs, gaining a few more through defections. This gives them a good starting point, and over the next decade expand rapidly, particularly in the wake of the collapse of the Lib Dems and Scottish Labour.

Interesting, I look forward to seeing it. Your endgame was more or less the same as how I thought things could go, except I thought that they could nab a few more MPs in 2005, particularly in inner London, but that was in part because Livingstone joins them in this scenario after talks to bring him back into Labour break down. I am not sure what there status in Scotland would be currently, however, given that those who might typically vote for them would be nationalists, and instead opt for the SNP, the SSP, or indeed the Scottish Greens, who they might be in alliance with anyway if they had a similar arrangement with their counterparts south of the border.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
I was going to say have Galloway's role be significantly reduced, but @Alexander the Average's idea is a lot better and more fleshed out. The only thing I can say is who else beyond Meacher (who, as Benn's Preacher, is quite a good option)?
 
I was going to say have Galloway's role be significantly reduced, but @Alexander the Average's idea is a lot better and more fleshed out. The only thing I can say is who else beyond Meacher (who, as Benn's Preacher, is quite a good option)?

Brian Sedgemore would be a likely figure. He defected to the Lib Dems over Iraq, but he might actually end up joining Respect instead.
 
I was going to say have Galloway's role be significantly reduced, but @Alexander the Average's idea is a lot better and more fleshed out. The only thing I can say is who else beyond Meacher (who, as Benn's Preacher, is quite a good option)?
One outside suggestion could be Tony Banks, he was a member of the Socialist Campaign Group, a junior minister, and strongly environmentalist and pro animal rights (he was the author of that asteroid motion that Corbyn signed up to). He was also an MP for West Ham, where Respect came second in 2005, and would be one of those MPs who might conclude defection would be to their advantage. He stood down at the 2005 election, but perhaps the possibility of becoming a prominent figure in a left wing party. Unfortunately, he died shortly afterward he left the Commons from a stroke, but that could be butterflied if needs be.

Alternatively, why not McDonnell? He seemed to be the closest the Labour left had to a leader after Tony Benn left parliament.
 
The current draft New Gang of Four consists of Galloway, Meacher, David Taylor and David Drew, although Drew and Taylor are currently provisional and were selected largely at random from the list of Labour MPs who were members of the Socialist Campaign Group at the time, so I'm open to suggestions. The problem with getting Old Left Labour MPs to defect is that, whilst they are often insubordinate, they also tend to be stubbornly loyal to the Labour Party, largely because those with flakier loyalty have long since been purged, deselected, or left on their own accord, whilst the remaining Labour Leftists tend to be Old Guard remnants who have given their lives to the party.

As for Scotland, the initial idea was that, because Respect is a rapidly rising party that is seen by many as the face of hard-left and anti-establishment politics, they are able to outflank the SNP on the left and drive them more to the centre. Come the 2015 election Respect are somewhat successfully able to smear the SNP as Blairism/Tory-ite with a Scottish accent.

I ultimately came to the conclusion that this was somewhat unrealistic, at least within the timeframe, and I'm currently leaning towards an alliance between Respect, the Scottish Greens and the Scottish Socialist Party (with a bit of preliminary wanking to make them a more credible force) in the aftermath of the independence referendum, where they also agree to not run candidates in seats being contested by left-wing SNP members. The end result will probably be a less crushing defeat for Labour as the anti-establishment vote is split, but it does give Respect and their affiliated parties a good Scottish base, and some of those left-wing SNP MPs will probably defect.
 
The current draft New Gang of Four consists of Galloway, Meacher, David Taylor and David Drew, although Drew and Taylor are currently provisional and were selected largely at random from the list of Labour MPs who were members of the Socialist Campaign Group at the time, so I'm open to suggestions. The problem with getting Old Left Labour MPs to defect is that, whilst they are often insubordinate, they also tend to be stubbornly loyal to the Labour Party, largely because those with flakier loyalty have long since been purged, deselected, or left on their own accord, whilst the remaining Labour Leftists tend to be Old Guard remnants who have given their lives to the party.
That is true, but some of them do have a record of being open to other parties. Just browsing through a list of Socialist Campaign Group MPs, and I found Lynne Jones, who was one of several left wingers to suggest they would stand against Gordon Brown, and actually went so far as to endorse the Respect candidate when she stood down in 2010. She seems like a pretty good bet.
I ultimately came to the conclusion that this was somewhat unrealistic, at least within the timeframe, and I'm currently leaning towards an alliance between Respect, the Scottish Greens and the Scottish Socialist Party (with a bit of preliminary wanking to make them a more credible force) in the aftermath of the independence referendum, where they also agree to not run candidates in seats being contested by left-wing SNP members. The end result will probably be a less crushing defeat for Labour as the anti-establishment vote is split, but it does give Respect and their affiliated parties a good Scottish base, and some of those left-wing SNP MPs will probably defect.

Fair enough, where would Scottish Respect stand on independence? Would it be unionist, nationalist, or just neutral on the issue, like some NI parties are on unification?
 
Brian Sedgemore would be a likely figure. He defected to the Lib Dems over Iraq, but he might actually end up joining Respect instead.

I considered him, but he didn't seem to fit due to having left the Socialist Campaign Group in the 80s. Also as a member of the British Humanist society I could see him alienating the socially conservative Muslim base that provided a lot of their votes. I might reconsider, however, given that it would take some of the wind out of the Lib Dems' sails, and I could see him being quite anti-Galloway.

That is true, but some of them do have a record of being open to other parties. Just browsing through a list of Socialist Campaign Group MPs, and I found Lynne Jones, who was one of several left wingers to suggest they would stand against Gordon Brown, and actually went so far as to endorse the Respect candidate when she stood down in 2010. She seems like a pretty good bet.


Fair enough, where would Scottish Respect stand on independence? Would it be unionist, nationalist, or just neutral on the issue, like some NI parties are on unification?

I actually have plans for Lynne Jones and her seat, but she remains in the Labour Party.

As for the Scottish referendum the party would back independence, and post-referendum they support devo-max and Federalisation with states allowed to unilaterally secede. It's this commitment to de facto independence that allows for the Scottish Socialists to basically become an affiliate party, whilst still being ambiguous enough to appeal to hard-left soft-unionists and soft-left hard-nationalists..
 
Could this temporary alliance with the Greens really work in the long run? Of the major parties in the UK, the Greens are pretty much the most pro-LGBTQ rights one. I'm not sure how that would work well with those Respect members who were willing to form alliances with radical Islamist groups IOTL.
 
Could this temporary alliance with the Greens really work in the long run? Of the major parties in the UK, the Greens are pretty much the most pro-LGBTQ rights one. I'm not sure how that would work well with those Respect members who were willing to form alliances with radical Islamist groups IOTL.
The way I would see this developing, the alliance with the Greens, coupled with the defections of some MPs from the Labour left, would have the effect of boosting Respect's appeal away from being so reliant on the Islamic community, too one that is looking to attract support from a mixture of the 'champagne socialist' middle class and some of the working class, particularly in large inner cities. If they began polling in or around double figures soon after their foundation, they will be less eager to form alliances with questionable Muslim organisations, as it would do a party that is looking to attract mass appeal more harm than good. Of course, they would still retain a large amount of support from the Muslim population, but that would only be one part of their coalition.
 
I heard George Galloway speak in Houston, Texas, around (?) 1993 and I thought he was damn impressive.

I know he ran into trouble with some money raised and given about whether his group was a hundred percent sure the recipients were a hundred percent non-terrorist. To me, this just underscores how hard it is to operate in a culture in which some aspects you're familiar with and some you aren't.

The take home lesson might be, yes, make your best judgement call, trust your gut, see if it passes the smell test. At the same time, engage in due diligence (formalistic) so you'll have that level of defense, too. I know one investment company uses a checklist so their enthusiasm won't run away with them (I think this is in the second to last chapter of Atul Gawande, MD's book The Checklist Manifesto).

George basically said his organization was being witch-hunted if I understand corrected. Again, I'm a Yank.

There is an interesting double standard in the U.S., and probably in the UK as well. If you're an idealist or a do-gooder, then you must be as pure as the driven snow. Whereas if you're HSBC bank when it sure looks like you've engaged in money laundering including only a single level removed from Al Qaeda if you're lucky, then the U.S. Attorney General agrees to a settlement which doesn't bring criminal charges, and thereby avoids potentially endangering the corporate charter of HSBC to do business in the U.S. The Attorney General even states as a major reason that it might hurt the overall economy, which might well be true. So, the bank is basically told, do better next time.

In my book, this is one of the sorriest actions of the Obama administration. But generally, just business as normal.
 
Last edited:
Top