AHC: Viking colonization of North America.

As the title says, what would be a realistic way for the Vikings to colonize North America? How would this shape the history of the Americas?
 
Yet another Vikings survive in the Mew World thread but since I’ve usually stayed away from them I’ll throw my two cents in.

If you want the Vikings to succeed, either make the natives friendlier; or make the Nordic people become seafaring raiders much much earlier. The longer Iceland is settled the longer people can explore Greenland and thereby the longer we have the knowledge the Americas exist.
 

Kaze

Banned
Or the easiest way. Finding a little yellow rock. The same little yellow rock that made Columbus a success instead of being hanged by the King of Spain as a thief -- the rock is called "Gold" and being told there was more over the next valley. The finding of gold and being told there was more changed everything and would change the Vikings to the Spanish model.
 
I would say religion would be a good "push" from Europe to "pull" of the rich, self sustaining lands of Vinland.

To get at what I mean, in the 980's Norway, and the Atlantic outposts were overwhelmingly Pagan (first Church in Norway was built in 995). In fact, even though there were British Christians among the settlers in Iceland in the late 800's the faith had died out (my suspicion is that the lass who would marry a pagan Viking was not the most loyal daughter of the Church and free from the institutions of Christianity in Iceland, the kids grew up Pagan). Yet by 1010 all of these places were nominally and increasingly Christian.

Vinland was discovered around 1000.

That change probably would not have been possible without one man, Olaf Tryggvason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Tryggvason

He basically used violence to convert Norway, enforced a trade embargo with Iceland unless they didn't change religion, and sponsored the forced conversion of the Shetlands and Faroes. Among other things he accepted one Lief Ericcison as his Hirdman, and when his father Eric the Red died Lief enforced Christianity in Greenland (his mother converted to support her Son after he returned a convert).

Get rid of Olaf and this rather quick and relatively peaceful conversion falls apart. Replace it with a Danish/HRE/English/whomever war of conquest with lots of protracted violence starting say in the 1020s and going into the 1030's and 40's, long enough for knowledge of Vinland to spread. Have Iceland rather than Greenland back the settlement in order to be independent in raw materials. Have tens of thousands of Norweigans who had no reason to flee otl run for their lives as radicalized war refugees atl.

Men who cannot return home make very determined colonists, very different from the Vinlanders of otl who came but who could return to Greenland with few negative consequences the moment things got too hard. Increase their numbers ten or twenty fold, in the first wave.

This is the only type of circumstance I could see that would produce the right type of determined colonists to make Vinland succeed that might exist with a reasonable chance of happening.

If someone could come up with another good reason, I'd be interested to hear it.
 
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Or the easiest way. Finding a little yellow rock. The same little yellow rock that made Columbus a success instead of being hanged by the King of Spain as a thief -- the rock is called "Gold" and being told there was more over the next valley. The finding of gold and being told there was more changed everything and would change the Vikings to the Spanish model.

Issue: the Beothuk have very little gold, and longships aren't very conducive to getting you all the way to Mexico.

I would say religion would be a good "push" from Europe to "pull" of the rich, self sustaining lands of Vinland.

To get at what I mean, in the 980's Norway, and the Atlantic outposts were overwhelmingly Pagan (first Church in Norway was built in 995). In fact, even though there were British Christians among the settlers in Iceland in the late 800's the faith had died out (my suspicion is that the lass who would marry a pagan Viking was not the most loyal daughter of the Church and free from the institutions of Christianity in Iceland, the kids grew up Pagan). Yet by 1010 all of these places were nominally and increasingly Christian.

Vinland was discovered around 1000.

That change probably would not have been possible without one man, Olaf Tryggvason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Tryggvason

He basically used violence to convert Norway, enforced a trade embargo with Iceland unless they didn't change religion, and sponsored the forced conversion of the Shetlands and Faroes. Among other things he accepted one Lief Ericcison as his Hirdman, and when his father Eric the Red died Lief enforced Christianity in Greenland (his mother converted to support her Son after he returned a convert).

Get rid of Olaf and this rather quick and relatively peaceful conversion falls apart. Replace it with a Danish/HRE/English/whomever war of conquest with lots of protracted violence starting say in the 1020s and going into the 1030's and 40's, long enough for knowledge of Vinland to spread. Have Iceland rather than Greenland back the settlement in order to be independent in raw materials. Have tens of thousands of Norweigans who had no reason to flee otl run for their lives as radicalized war refugees atl.

Men who cannot return home make very determined colonists, very different from the Vinlanders of otl who came but who could return to Greenland with few negative consequences the moment things got too hard. Increase their numbers ten or twenty fold, in the first wave.

This is the only type of circumstance I could see that would produce the right type of determined colonists to make Vinland succeed that might exist with a reasonable chance of happening.

If someone could come up with another good reason, I'd be interested to hear it.

I like... but they also won't have succor or new colonists arriving from the mother country, nor access to trade to bring in tools/European technology and trade goods. That leaves the colony no real margin for error; every norseman lost is one home for good, and their advantage in tech is going to erode quickly. Can they establish a sekf-sufficent polity in the face of native competition?
 

Kaze

Banned
Nor did the Indians on Hispaniola have much gold, but it was found nonetheless and they made the horrid mistake of saying that there was more over in the next valley. Then came the flood of explorers and conquistadors looking to cash in. First it was the Caribbean, then it was Mexico, and then beyond always searching for the gold over the next mountain. The Vikings would have done the same if there was gold up north and prospect of more over the next mountain, which as you pointed out there was none.

The known landing sites was too far north for useful / sustainable farming practices - the only things that could grow there are sheep and cattle, these items would not support a colony long.


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It is true that it would be a long-shot for a long-ship to reach Mexico, but it could in theory be done.
 
Nor did the Indians on Hispaniola have much gold, but it was found nonetheless and they made the horrid mistake of saying that there was more over in the next valley. Then came the flood of explorers and conquistadors looking to cash in. First it was the Caribbean, then it was Mexico, and then beyond always searching for the gold over the next mountain. The Vikings would have done the same if there was gold up north and prospect of more over the next mountain, which as you pointed out there was none.

The known landing sites was too far north for useful / sustainable farming practices - the only things that could grow there are sheep and cattle, these items would not support a colony long.


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It is true that it would be a long-shot for a long-ship to reach Mexico, but it could in theory be done.
Alternate History: What if the Hispaniola natives never said that there was more gold over in the next valley? Leaving out that one sentence changes the entirety of the last 525 years.
 
I allways liked the Idea of a Norse settlements in Morth America with early arival of European animals (horse pig cow sheep cat etc)and fruit and vegetables after a few generations contact with Norway ends and the Vikings asssimilate with the native americans.How long would it take to have those new animals and vegetables being spread over the Continent
 
I allways liked the Idea of a Norse settlements in Morth America with early arival of European animals (horse pig cow sheep cat etc)and fruit and vegetables after a few generations contact with Norway ends and the Vikings asssimilate with the native americans.How long would it take to have those new animals and vegetables being spread over the Continent
1. Native Americans would both be more immune to old world disease and more technologically advanced.
2. European explorers later on would have been baffled by white-looking tribes in the northeast with familiar sounding words (likely loanwords from old Norse for things the Vikings brought over).
 
I like... but they also won't have succor or new colonists arriving from the mother country, nor access to trade to bring in tools/European technology and trade goods. That leaves the colony no real margin for error; every norseman lost is one home for good, and their advantage in tech is going to erode quickly. Can they establish a sekf-sufficent polity in the face of native competition?

I think they can in Newfoundland and from there expand to places like Nova Scotia, the Islands in the gulf of St Lawerance etc.

1) In this Scenario I picture the Norse out numbering the Beothuk fairly quickly. Consider that 5000 is the high estimate I could find for pre contact. Consider that Eric the Red could get 3000 Icelanders to colonize Greenland in peacetime. That's 10% of the population of Iceland. A Vinland colony of a fleeing, stressed Norway/Iceland population could be number say, 10-15,000 in dribs and drabs over 20-30 years (and like I said this is the ONLY way I could think to get these numbers to Vinland).

2) As for Norse tech, I say to get started and be independent all you need is wood, bog iron, and livestock to be independent/self sustaining, all of which you have in Vinland and which give an intial tech advantage over the NA. From there you can expand, trade and grow, probably with Native Americans. Part of your descendants remain Norse by having a base/capital in Newfoundland where the majority is blonde, blue eyed types.

3) You could be cut of from Europe, and having Cabot land in 1497 to meet Norse Pagans can be cool.

But you could do something different. Perhaps they trade with Europe through middle men, like Norse Greenlanders or Basques who keep quiet.

Another possiblity is that other small groups set up colonies following the Norse example. A few years ago I came across a tl where Jews set up a colony just south of the Norse Vinland and in the 1200s Cathers set up further south (its a long buried tl) and all three end up allies. I didn't find the tl convincing, but I did think this idea was fun/cool and if someone could sell it, I'd at least look it over.

Hope that's helpful.
 
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