AHC: Vichy lives on

Okay the idea of this one is that Vichy France has to survive for as long as possible

If possible is their away to have a free Northern France?

Rules: Vichy France may fall but you must delay this as long as you can
The Allies must win WW2, though The peace is up to you
 
Have De Gaulle be so much of a pain in the ass to the Allies that the US keeps recognizing Vichy as the legitimate regime, with the UK eventually following suit. :D
 
Okay the idea of this one is that Vichy France has to survive for as long as possible

If possible is their away to have a free Northern France?

Rules: Vichy France may fall but you must delay this as long as you can
The Allies must win WW2, though The peace is up to you

The only I could see them survive the war would be to be in a similar space then franco's spain: keep giving some help to the german but not having the allies directly against you either. The absence of de Gaulle might help. Vichy had been recognise by the US so with the fighting french/free french, the UK might have agreed to recognise it too as long as they don't overtly help the german war effort.

Many in the Vichy government, no matter how power hungry and fascist leaning they might be, often seem to have look for ways to eventualy stick it to the germans so near the end of the war, they might have made secret overture to the allies to "let them pass and not resist" in the event of a allied landing with the caveat that their territorial integrity would be respected (including return of territory lost to germany).
 
Going on the basis that Vichy france survives the war and begins a military build up but remains in the troops limits imposed by the Germans:

1945

Provisional France: 700,000

French State:kissingheart:268,800

Of course now that the Third Reich has fallen the French State will once again be able to launch a large military build up to combat possible invasion by the Provisional state.

Note I am using the idea that 60,000 Vichy troops do not defect to the*Forces Françaises Libres after the Reich invaded the French State.

Another view is the French States Army being 110,000 by 1945 if they do not launch a build up

Also note that I'm not taking the 600,000 Vichy colonial troops into count in this.



Just a thought if this was to turn into a North/South Korea situation ;)
 
This assumes of course that the surviving Vichy Regime doesn't declare war on Germany once the Allies start pouring into France. Not sure how much they would be able to grab, but it could be a significant amount depending on how successful they are.
 
This assumes of course that the surviving Vichy Regime doesn't declare war on Germany once the Allies start pouring into France. Not sure how much they would be able to grab, but it could be a significant amount depending on how successful they are.

could probably recapture lost land but the allies themselves might put a stop to it.
 
Going on the basis that Vichy france survives the war and begins a military build up but remains in the troops limits imposed by the Germans:

1945

Provisional France: 700,000

French State:kissingheart:268,800

Of course now that the Third Reich has fallen the French State will once again be able to launch a large military build up to combat possible invasion by the Provisional state.

Note I am using the idea that 60,000 Vichy troops do not defect to the*Forces Françaises Libres after the Reich invaded the French State.

Another view is the French States Army being 110,000 by 1945 if they do not launch a build up

Also note that I'm not taking the 600,000 Vichy colonial troops into count in this.



Just a thought if this was to turn into a North/South Korea situation ;)

Somehow I don't think both side would be recognised, either the allies recognise vichy (like the US did) and quickly drop any support for the Free French or they support the later in which case Vichy is screwed just like here. The only reason why you has split countries like vietnam, korea and germany was that each side was backed by a block of country. The allies could decide to live with an authoritarian Vichy France but unless the leadership is quite different on the free french side, I don't see them seeking backing from the Soviets.

The only other way I can see something like that happen would be for free france to survive only in out of the way places (antilles, SPeM, pacific) and even then, mainland france would probably eventualy send expeditions to recapture them with the international community staying out of the matter under the guise of it being an internal issue.
 
could probably recapture lost land but the allies themselves might put a stop to it.
I was basing that on the premise that the Vichy Regime remains, in the eyes of the Allies, the legitimate one, and De Gaulle was shot down on his way to England (as very nearly happened).
 
I was basing that on the premise that the Vichy Regime remains, in the eyes of the Allies, the legitimate one, and De Gaulle was shot down on his way to England (as very nearly happened).

I understand, but I don't think the allies would allow them much beyond pre-war border (in the sense of suggesting pretty strongly to go back once the armistice is signed if they crossed into germany). I think it was at the tehran conference that the US and USSR discussed seriously treating France as an occupied country following the war due to its collaboration with Germany and that was with De Gaulle on their side so imagine their views without a "friendly" government.
 
Vichy has far too little credibility in the public, or the international community. I honestly don't see the regime lasting much longer than the end of the war. For it to have any longevity like Franco, then you need it to emerge out of a right wing coup before 1939.
 
Vichy has far too little credibility in the public, or the international community. I honestly don't see the regime lasting much longer than the end of the war. For it to have any longevity like Franco, then you need it to emerge out of a right wing coup before 1939.

I think that if it Petain manage to convince people, both internaly and internationaly, that he is all that stand against the bolshevisation of France, he might actualy manage to pull it off. After WW2, what most wanted was stability so between an authoritarian regime alligned with the allies or potential chaos, a lot of leyway might be given him.
 
I understand, but I don't think the allies would allow them much beyond pre-war border (in the sense of suggesting pretty strongly to go back once the armistice is signed if they crossed into germany). I think it was at the tehran conference that the US and USSR discussed seriously treating France as an occupied country following the war due to its collaboration with Germany and that was with De Gaulle on their side so imagine their views without a "friendly" government.
The occupation was, from what I can find, supposed to be done jointly by the British and Americans, for the length of a year. Vichy officials would by and large maintain their positions, but the higher level officials would require approval of Allied Officials.
 
Have Italy go red. If you can make Italy a real threat to European security, Vichy France might just be kept around, as a hardcore nationalist government, militarized as a bastion against the Communists. Free France could be seen as a potential danger, with de Gaulle being noted for his stubborn belief in French power post-war.
 
vichy05.jpg


So I don't think Vichy France can survive with all of that, but a rump French State, with a border on the Rhone, with a UN sponsored international zone controlling both banks of the Rhone, to ensure that the cities of the river aren't torn apart.
 
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