The challenge here is to make the Vatican join the axis or the allies, bonus points if you can do it without Hitler/Mussolini capturing Pius XII/Collegiate of Cardinals.
AHC: Vatican joins either side
- Thread starter Top hats daily
- Start date
If it's the Allies he openly declares support for, then only restraint on the part of Mussolini or Hitler will prevent his arrest or murder. Restraint was not a common word in the Fascist syllabus.
If it's the Axis, then you can get heavy divisions in the Allied countries, especially among Catholic soldiers and leaders. Expect something of a backlash, and the Papacy to be somewhat discredited postwar.
If it's the Axis, then you can get heavy divisions in the Allied countries, especially among Catholic soldiers and leaders. Expect something of a backlash, and the Papacy to be somewhat discredited postwar.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
Easy. Vatican City declares war on the Axis Powers after the Allies gained possession of Rome on June 9, 1944. Since there are no longer any Nazi soldiers in Rome, save for a few deserters, the Pope will be safe from being captured.
I fell out of my chair when i read this.
I can see the pope maybe condemning every little thing that Hitler/Mussolini do(even taking a dump), but it would be too risky for him to declare support, just like how out was too risky for the Swiss and their economy.
- September 7, 1943
I'm sure that even 50 armed soldiers could take the Vatican. A hundred-acre enclave in Rome that's full of (relatively) elderly cardinals, a few bishops, and one outspoken Pope? As long as the Allies aren't near Rome, a couple troops can easily overwhelm the place.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
But in my case, the Allies have already occupied Rome, and the Nazis are in retreat towards Northern Italy.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
To maintain Swiss neutrality, the Swiss Guard is renamed the Vatican Guard.
Actually Mussolini's Facists did create the Vatican, see the "Lateran Treaty"
An except from the treaty actually solves this threads question "The Pope was pledged to perpetual neutrality in international relations and to abstention from mediation in a controversy unless specifically requested by all parties" So in a word, no, the Pope by law cant actually pledge his support for either side even if he wanted to.
Pius XII had in fact made precautions in case he was kidnapped by the Axis, namely that in that case he should be considered to have stepped down and that the College of Cardinals should escape to (neutral) Portugal and elect a new Pope. Because of this I just don't think that the Vatican, in the end, would specifically join one side or the other, though diplomatic relations to the Axis powers would suffer in that situation automatically.
I think whether they joined the Allies or not would depend on what happened to Pius. If he is alive but a prisoner they would be pro-Allied neutrals. If he is martyred they enter the war on the Allied side and the Axis Catholics are excommunicated. That could lead to the Ustasha and other Catholic leaning Fascists turning on the NAZIs.
Alternatively, it'd be exciting to see them (technically, the excommunicated pro-Nazi cardinals... how many would there be?) name the first modern antipope.
He can't OFFICALLY do so, no, but let's say that Rome is in danger of being over run by the Axis, and Pius is forced to flee the Vatican. Where will he go? Not to the Nazis, that's for damn sure. By default that means that he will seek sanctuary with the Allies, which the Allies will readily give. Therefore, the Pope gives his support the Allies by default.
That would be very interesting. First Antipope since the 15th century. Could add an interesting religious element to WWII.