AHC: US Wank in ARW

PatrickS

Banned
What is the best the 13 colonies can do in the war? What's the best victory they can get. And what's the quickest they can win?
 
13 Colonies, Quebec, and MAYBE “New Brunswick” and The Bahamas.

Depends on how well we do in battles and the type of help from foreigners, really.
 
OTL's result was pretty much a U.S.-wank. It was not inevitable that the U.S. would get all the land in between the Appalachians and the Mississippi.
 
They could avoid totally fucking up the Penobscot Expedition in 1779, that cluster virtually bankrupted Massachusetts.
 
OTL's result was pretty much a U.S.-wank. It was not inevitable that the U.S. would get all the land in between the Appalachians and the Mississippi.
The British had no way to hold or enforce their claim on the land west of Appalachians and south of Ohio, and they knew it. I'd hardly call it a wank.
 
13 Colonies, Quebec, and MAYBE “New Brunswick” and The Bahamas.

Depends on how well we do in battles and the type of help from foreigners, really.

This, and also Bermuda, if the French happen to have control of it at the time the war ends, and commit to their promise of turning it over to the US.

Nova Scotia is also possible, albeit more difficult.

If you go with an earlier POD prior to the ARW, and create a different makeup of settlers and their levels of rebelliousness, then you could make all the above even easier, maybe even going as far as including the Floridas.
 
The British had no way to hold or enforce their claim on the land west of Appalachians and south of Ohio, and they knew it. I'd hardly call it a wank.

Actually, had we been able to keep Florida, we would probably been able to have held most of that land. If Spain could be kept out of the ARW, a lot less land would have been given.
 
Well, it depends on how great it is. There are sympathizers in Nova Scotia, but they were turned off early in the war. The province could go for them, potentially. Halifax is an extremely important naval base, though, and Great Britain will be loathe to cede it. East and West Florida were returned to Spain after the war. If Spain never joins, you could potentially see either, or both, being ceded to the US. The islands themselves are going to be nigh-impossible to conquer, especially with the fledgling US Navy (simply not enough ships and manpower). Bermuda and the Bahamas will remain the British, barring some unnatural disaster befalling the Royal Navy.

The biggest game-changer would be the fate of Upper Canada/Ontario. Don't quote me on this, but I believe that, under the treaty of Paris, the French insisted that Upper Canada remained British in order to put a wedge between the United States and Great Britain. A P.O.D. either at the negotiating table or on the battlefield (or both) would be necessary.
 
The US got pretty lucky in OTL. But I guess for a US-wank, you could have New Brunswick join as well, and have the Americans take southern Ontario. Finding a way to expel the British completely from the Northwest Territory would complete a "perfect" American Revolution (avoids the War of 1812 later down the line).
 
The US got pretty lucky in OTL. But I guess for a US-wank, you could have New Brunswick join as well, and have the Americans take southern Ontario. Finding a way to expel the British completely from the Northwest Territory would complete a "perfect" American Revolution (avoids the War of 1812 later down the line).

I just don't see how Great Britain would relent and allow just the province that became New Brunswick OTL join the US. Nova Scotia at the time incorporated PEI and New Brunswick. It wasn't until the flood of Loyalist refugees and freed slaves, after the war, that the territory became large enough to assume its own identity.

That, and losing New Brunswick would eliminate the land connection between Halifax and Quebec, even further poisoning relations. It probably would be an all or nothing deal, between completly annexing Nova Scotia or letting it go free. (Although, perhaps a border deal could extend Massachusetts's northern counties to the northwest, instead of to the north?)

The thing is, where the the loyalists go? Would they flee to the Caribbean, whatever leftover province(s) are left in OTL Canada, to South America, or to Drakia Cape Colony?
 
OTL's result was pretty much a U.S.-wank. It was not inevitable that the U.S. would get all the land in between the Appalachians and the Mississippi.

That does not mean things could have got better for the US in the ARW.

My suggestion would be a harsher Quebec Act which drives the Franch Canadians and Nova Scotia to join the ARW and thus become part of the United States of America, The Bahamas might also be part of it from day one.

If Britain gains Cuba from the SYW, Cuba might also join the ARW and become part of the USA as well, as might Jamaica (although that is a long shot).
 
If us take control of quebec by taking the city, wouldn't the French pressure the congress to return it to them ?
Not at all. The Treaty of Alliance with France specifically acknowledged that all Canadian land would go to the US; in exchange we agreed that any Caribbean islands or what not we captured would go to France. Likewise, the Canadians were pre-approved for statehood under the Articles of Confederation.

Quebec had never been of great importance to France, and gaining a North American ally against the UK was far more important. The French would be happy to grab some more sugar islands (any one of which was more profitable than all of Canada put together); Canada was not worth the trouble.
 
That does not mean things could have got better for the US in the ARW.

My suggestion would be a harsher Quebec Act which drives the Franch Canadians and Nova Scotia to join the ARW and thus become part of the United States of America, The Bahamas might also be part of it from day one.

If Britain gains Cuba from the SYW, Cuba might also join the ARW and become part of the USA as well, as might Jamaica (although that is a long shot).

That is an if, although, as Just a Rube points out, the Caribbean islands would go to France in the event of capture during the war. And with so many Catholics, especially French and Spanish ones, it makes the alliance between the states more tenuous (if just a little). Be interesting to see how a division plays out.

South Africa, Australia and "British" South America mainly

Sorry. I did mean to imply the latter, and South Africa with the Cape Colony (I got a shade of deja vu, which reminded me of the Draka. That story began under a similar situation.)

One interesting thing is, if Britain had Cuba, and they managed to retain it during the war, it might become a Loyalist stronghold. That complicates things greatly, as then Britain would have an easier time reaching the Mississippi watershed, and could exert its influence on the Old Northwest Territories moreso.
 
It would also mean that there is a Colonial Navy that isn't a joke.

The actions of the, admittedly thrown together, navy at Penobscot were very underwhelming. At the very least they could have fought hard when the British fleet arrived instead of just scuttling their ships.

However it was the land forces that failed to attack and take the Fort despite numerical superiority.
 
That is an if, although, as Just a Rube points out, the Caribbean islands would go to France in the event of capture during the war. And with so many Catholics, especially French and Spanish ones, it makes the alliance between the states more tenuous (if just a little). Be interesting to see how a division plays out.

The only "Caribbean Islands" in question here are Cuba and the Bahamas, maybe you can get Jamaica as well but that is about it, the rest of the British West Indies will not fall to the Partriots without ASBs.

Sorry. I did mean to imply the latter, and South Africa with the Cape Colony (I got a shade of deja vu, which reminded me of the Draka. That story began under a similar situation.)

That is exactly what I had in mind, minus the ASB wanking of course. It would mean that British South African holdings would be bigger than OTL, for example it might include Angola, Mozambique and Katanga and Kaasai in the OTL DRC.

One interesting thing is, if Britain had Cuba, and they managed to retain it during the war, it might become a Loyalist stronghold. That complicates things greatly, as then Britain would have an easier time reaching the Mississippi watershed, and could exert its influence on the Old Northwest Territories moreso.

Unless the a Cuban Rebelion alone, I cannot see the British hold into Cuba if they are also fighting the 13 colonies, Quebec and Nova Scotia at the same time with the same OTL milltary resources.
 
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