Otto Kretschmer
Banned
Guys, how do you save the Umayyad Caliphate and prevent the Abbasid Revolution from happening/make it fail?
AHC: Umayyad Caliphate survives
- Thread starter Otto Kretschmer
- Start date
You can go with many scenario honestly have Umar II not be assasinated and reign longer or the Umayyad doing better against the Khazar or the Abbasid revolution being defeated early on in Khorasan could crush the Abbasid revolt .
Definitely agree that if Umar II lived longer and implemented his reforms, the Umayyad Caliphate would've lasted a bit longer since the policies implemented by the Umayyads was the primary reason behind the Abbasid Revolution.
If the Abbasid Revolution was crushed, then the preferential treatment of Arabs over non-Arabs would have continued, radically altering how the Caliphate and future states worked if it came to be the norm.
If the Abbasid Revolution was crushed, then the preferential treatment of Arabs over non-Arabs would have continued, radically altering how the Caliphate and future states worked if it came to be the norm.
The End of the Jihâd State
Stretching from Morocco to China, the Umayyad caliphate based its expansion and success on the doctrine of jihad--armed struggle to claim the whole earth for God's rule, a struggle that had brought much ...
I don't think it was natural for such a vast empire to be ruled from syria , it was not possible to have stability in the long term.So long as the state was expanding the dissident voices can be sent to the front to let off some steam and use the spoils of war to exert harsh control over provinces but once this dried up it was only a matter of time that empire would fragment.
They need a big win, either constantinople or more conquest on Gallia/Mediteranean, beating the berbers on their cradle would help a lot too
But isn't this like true for every empire ever? Or even any large nation-state? Times of conflict allow greater centralization as disparate people band together for protection and /or direction. In peace time the reverse becomes true; people wonder why they should bow to the authority of someone so different and far from them. Mistakes that could have been dismissed in earlier times, now have the potential to become full on disasters.you will find interestingThe End of the Jihâd State
Stretching from Morocco to China, the Umayyad caliphate based its expansion and success on the doctrine of jihad--armed struggle to claim the whole earth for God's rule, a struggle that had brought much ...www.sunypress.edu
I don't think it was natural for such a vast empire to be ruled from syria , it was not possible to have stability in the long term.So long as the state was expanding the dissident voices can be sent to the front to let off some steam and use the spoils of war to exert harsh control over provinces but once this dried up it was only a matter of time that empire would fragment.
For the short term what they needed was a powerful boogeyman (that the Romans were not at the moment), and sensible yet consistent military spending and campaigns.
For longer, not sure how well integration could have worked, with the arab aristocracy being as entrenched as it was.
Not always in fact if the war ends badly or the people don't see reason for a war or some hungry power nobles use the war to win something
As for boogeyman the closest thing would be tang china after it's victory at aksu
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
you will find interestingThe End of the Jihâd State
Stretching from Morocco to China, the Umayyad caliphate based its expansion and success on the doctrine of jihad--armed struggle to claim the whole earth for God's rule, a struggle that had brought much ...
I don't think it was natural for such a vast empire to be ruled from syria , it was not possible to have stability in the long term.So long as the state was expanding the dissident voices can be sent to the front to let off some steam and use the spoils of war to exert harsh control over provinces but once this dried up it was only a matter of time that empire would fragment.
You mean it was harsh control, not nice control, better administered than what came before?
It wasn't, ummayds rule thanks their legitimacy as family of uthman and one keep order after beating the aliites, that is why military victories( and a lesser degree spoils) where need to keep order.
Probably significantly slows down the arabisation of North Africa, Al Andalus, and Egypt if they remain provinces of a distant empire rather than centres of local arabised states.
Ummayyad rule was harsh for people of hijaz and Iraqis [generally speaking] and ofcourse persianate people
everyone else actually prospered well
Ie the future Abbasadid Heartland, and Ummayds Considered themselves more an Arabo-syriac Dynasty with a focus to finish off the ERE..like the ottoman would be in the future