AHC: Ukrainian "Manchukuo Number Two"

MerryPrankster

I'm finishing up the book "Bloodlands," which is about the mass killings of Hitler and Stalin, and there's a reference to Polish diplomats referring to a Japanese scheme to carve out a puppet Siberian state populated by Ukrainian exiles and other victims of Stalinism as "Manchukuo Number Two."

Your challenge is to make it so the Japanese actually attempt this and for bonus points, make it actually succeed. Double the fun if the Poles manage to liberate Soviet Ukraine as well so there are now TWO Ukrainian states in the world. :D
 
oshron

oshron

iirc there was going to be an attempt by the Japanese to colonize Siberia (or at least the Russian Far East, i imagine), but i now nothing else about it
 

BBadolato

Wouldn't you have to make the Soviet Army weaker and the Japanese Army stronger? because the Soviet always had a decent sized force in the Far East, and Japan didn't want to fight them after losing Kakalin Gol
 

Hrvatskiwi

The best way to do this would be during the Russian Civil War. Have the Germans occupy Ukraine after Brest-Litovsk and set up a pro-German Ukrainian government, and meanwhile have the Japanese occupy Green Ukraine (like they did OTL). If you can find a way to keep them around (which is VERY hard), then you've achieved the challenge.
 

MerryPrankster

Hrvatskiwi said:
The best way to do this would be during the Russian Civil War. Have the Germans occupy Ukraine after Brest-Litovsk and set up a pro-German Ukrainian government, and meanwhile have the Japanese occupy Green Ukraine (like they did OTL). If you can find a way to keep them around (which is VERY hard), then you've achieved the challenge.
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Green Ukraine is in Siberia?
 

MerryPrankster

BBadolato said:
Wouldn't you have to make the Soviet Army weaker and the Japanese Army stronger? because the Soviet always had a decent sized force in the Far East, and Japan didn't want to fight them after losing Kakalin Gol
Click to expand...

"Bloodlands" seems to indicate the concept was being discussed in the early 1930s, so this is before KG.
 

Artatochor

Banned
The Japanese would need to be aware of the Ukrainian separatist organizations, and also, prior to German Barbarossa, opt for plan 'Go North'. Then, in a bid to take the Far Eastern Russia into their own sphere, support the rebels and encourage desertion while also coordinating full-scale assaults through Manchuria.
 

Blackfox5

Hrvatskiwi said:
The best way to do this would be during the Russian Civil War.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Soviet state has to be weakened enough that one or more of the regions split from the Tsarist Empire is able to gain international legitimacy. Any such area probably needs many years of coherent organized government capable of defending itself that the international community is willing to recognize it.

There probably needs to be a more brutal civil war in European Russia that one or more areas of the Far East gain independence before the Bolsheviks wind up on top, but exhausted.

Then at some point, a combination of financial insolvency or military weakness cause the Japanese to convince that Far East country to sign agreements that allow them to dominate and control Green Ukraine (or whatever it is called) in a similar manner as Manchukuo.
 
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