AHC: U.S. moves leftward in the 1970s, but evangelicals don't feel under siege.

For example, maybe nonreligious persons take the lead with home schooling, including the freedom that a student ought to be able to pass a written test, or show a portfolio of work, or pass some type of practical test, whatever works best for a particular student. And the leaders of the home schooling movement take the view, of course religious parents should have the same rights as everyone else.

This would be a start. I don't think it would be fully enough.

Alright, so how might the United States move leftward in the 1970s without evangelicals feeling under siege?
 
And 1974 was before the issue of the IRS vs. schools which practice racial discrimination got heated and controversial, at least in some evangelical circles. Most notably Bob Jones University.
 

Polemarchos

Banned
For example, maybe nonreligious persons take the lead with home schooling, including the freedom that a student ought to be able to pass a written test, or show a portfolio of work, or pass some type of practical test, whatever works best for a particular student. And the leaders of the home schooling movement take the view, of course religious parents should have the same rights as everyone else.

This would be a start. I don't think it would be fully enough.

Alright, so how might the United States move leftward in the 1970s without evangelicals feeling under siege?

Christian Progressivism doesn't blow its load with prohibition back in the 30s.
 

RousseauX

Donor
For example, maybe nonreligious persons take the lead with home schooling, including the freedom that a student ought to be able to pass a written test, or show a portfolio of work, or pass some type of practical test, whatever works best for a particular student. And the leaders of the home schooling movement take the view, of course religious parents should have the same rights as everyone else.

This would be a start. I don't think it would be fully enough.

Alright, so how might the United States move leftward in the 1970s without evangelicals feeling under siege?

This is really easy just don't have roe vs wade being a thing. Abortion was what kickstarted the rise of the Christian right in the US and is the core issue for nearly every single christian denomination in the US.

Get rid of abortion and the rest are fairly trivial issues.
 
This is really easy just don't have roe vs wade being a thing. Abortion was what kickstarted the rise of the Christian right in the US and is the core issue for nearly every single christian denomination in the US.

Get rid of abortion and the rest are fairly trivial issues.
Abortion legalization was still on the rise though, on a state-by-state level.

And while abortion is a major issue now (although I'd note that plenty of Christian denominations don't make a big deal about it; they just happen to not generally be part of the Religious Right), it was far from the only (and probably initially not the most important) issue in the rise of the religious conservative movement. The IRS vs. the Christian academies over taxation for segregated schools was a huge mover. And various other reactions to the perceived rise of secularism and multiculturalism were there as well (see the above mentioned Kanawha County textbook protests).
 
Yes, from the Roe vs. Wade decision of January 1973, it did take evangelical Protestants a while to catch up. Abortion was originally viewed as primarily a "Catholic issue." which to me, shows that even among serious-minded people, even among devoutly committed persons, wow, we as human beings are really tribal.

But by (?)1978, Protestants had caught up with the issue. And abortion was a way to indict modern society.

The part with the IRS vs. segregated schools, a pretty sorry chapter and a lot of anger and bile on the right to discriminate if we so choose, more so among those with formal leadership roles in evangelical circles. To their credit, evangelicals have moved beyond this.

For the '70s to be a left-moving decade, probably need one or several PODs giving an earlier and easier desegregation.
 

jahenders

Banned
Abortion legalization was still on the rise though, on a state-by-state level.

And while abortion is a major issue now (although I'd note that plenty of Christian denominations don't make a big deal about it; they just happen to not generally be part of the Religious Right), it was far from the only (and probably initially not the most important) issue in the rise of the religious conservative movement. The IRS vs. the Christian academies over taxation for segregated schools was a huge mover. And various other reactions to the perceived rise of secularism and multiculturalism were there as well (see the above mentioned Kanawha County textbook protests).

One of the things that made abortion such a touch point issue is that (for most of America) it was imposed from DC. Up to that point, legalization was growing in many areas, but that was a state issue and many evangelicals lived in states where it wasn't likely any time soon. Now, you had a godless elite imposing their will on people thousands of miles away. Then, you couple that with several other big rulings whose impact was being felt (Miranda, etc.) and with significant changes in what was being taught in schools, and it can begin to look like an assault on religion and religious people.

So, while various issues contributed, the imposition of abortion was a focusing point and the change in schools an issue that really hit home because it affected people's kids.
 

jahenders

Banned
But really that's only African Americans, though that's really good news for black LBGTs.

Actually, him living might help reduce the "under siege" mentality if it slowed, or reduced, the African American community's shift to near-complete alignment with the Democratic party, which then strengthened the Democratic party and contributed to other things that enhanced the "under siege" mentality.

I don't see how that impacts LBGTs -- he saw those as mental illnesses to be treated.
 
if Martin lives, and I certainly like a future where he does,

it's going to come out eventually that he cheats on his wife, it will. And he's going to be accused of being a hypocrite, even though I don't think preaching about marriage fidelity was a big topic of his.

Then it becomes important how Martin publicly responds to this (as well as privately! whether or not he and Coretta decide to go forward). Might even serve to humanize him.
 
And for a left-moving 70s, probably need a successful coalition government in Vietnam, maybe early in Nixon's first term.

The idea that we "lost" in Vietnam, even if the whole thing was misguided from the beginning, left a goodly swath of fellow citizens feeling angry/scared/vulnerable/pissed off.

And I know the Cubans supported rebels in Angola. How many rebel movements did the Soviets directly or indirectly support throughout the '70s? And I don't really know the answer to this. But I would estimate that for every one armed rebellion supported, we probably "needed" to prop up five dictatorships because you never knew where a serious armed rebellion was going to pop up.

We and the Soviets were like two scorpions circling each other in a bottle. And hell yes, there has to be a better way. But apparently, that better way is hard to find.
 
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Abortion legalization was still on the rise though, on a state-by-state level.

In blue states maybe. Even today, most of the South and Mountain West would ban abortion if it could.

I think Roe v. Wade would be a good POD actually-have the Supreme Court rule that abortion is a state issue. The US gradually divides into religious states that outlaw abortion and secular states that don't. While I think the culture wars would still exist in TTL, they'd certainly take a different tone if each "side" had its own area where it could control social policy.
 
if the counter-cultural movement had moved forward bigger with food banks, "free stores," and the like. And frankly, if the U.S. economy had been better,

and then in the nearly six years between Roe v. Wade in Jan. '73 and when abortion as a political issue did make a difference in some Senate races in Nov. '78,

maybe the whole issue gets characterized in a very different way as trying to reduce the incidence of abortion. Maybe even mainstream Protestant churches get in the act of trying to help people currently excluded from a sputtering and struggling economic system, and perhaps pregnant women are among five or six main areas of listed emphasis.
 
This is really easy just don't have roe vs wade being a thing. Abortion was what kickstarted the rise of the Christian right in the US and is the core issue for nearly every single christian denomination in the US.

Get rid of abortion and the rest are fairly trivial issues.

I have never understood why abortion was so divisive. It is so easy to find a compromise that could satisfy both liberals and conservatives; require couples that don't want kids to take birth control pills. Just pop a pill. It's that's easy and abortion can be avoided. Liberals would have to agree that abortion should be a no-no and conservatives would have to agree that birth control measures are ok and that sexual abstinence should not be held up as a virtue. A perfectly good compromise.

That's why I think it is more than abortion. It seems that liberals and conservatives hate each other and don't want to give each other an inch. That's the problem, not abortion.
 
I have never understood why abortion was so divisive. It is so easy to find a compromise that could satisfy both liberals and conservatives; require couples that don't want kids to take birth control pills. Just pop a pill. It's that's easy and abortion can be avoided. Liberals would have to agree that abortion should be a no-no and conservatives would have to agree that birth control measures are ok and that sexual abstinence should not be held up as a virtue. A perfectly good compromise.

That's why I think it is more than abortion. It seems that liberals and conservatives hate each other and don't want to give each other an inch. That's the problem, not abortion.

Im not too familiar about other Christian sects but I know for a fact the Catholic Church forbids all forms of birth control.
 
This is really easy just don't have roe vs wade being a thing. Abortion was what kickstarted the rise of the Christian right in the US and is the core issue for nearly every single christian denomination in the US.

Get rid of abortion and the rest are fairly trivial issues.

Get rid of the Supreme Court doing it nationally by fiat and instead have it continue to be done throughout the 70s and 80s by state houses and the reaction against it would have been totally different.

Slowly winning the battle on abortion was better for the left politically then instant winning it.

Something that gives both parties, but especially democrats more spine on foreign policy would help as well. Americans hated that their politicians were frozen and let the likes of Ayatollah and Brezhnev punk them in a way that wouldn't have happened in the 50s or 60s.
 
In 1980, I supported a much bigger commando raid against Iran, and perhaps more. Well, I was wrong, and President Carter was right.
 

RousseauX

Donor
That's why I think it is more than abortion. It seems that liberals and conservatives hate each other and don't want to give each other an inch. That's the problem, not abortion.

there's no particular reason why christians identify with conservatives on issues such as welfare, government regulations and foreign policy other than a tactical coalition built in the 70s-80s to fight abortion as an issue

I have never understood why abortion was so divisive. It is so easy to find a compromise that could satisfy both liberals and conservatives; require couples that don't want kids to take birth control pills. Just pop a pill. It's that's easy and abortion can be avoided. Liberals would have to agree that abortion should be a no-no and conservatives would have to agree that birth control measures are ok and that sexual abstinence should not be held up as a virtue. A perfectly good compromise.
Then you fundamentally don't understand what the abortion debate is about, your compromise is basically ~90% win for the conservatives
 
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