AHC: U.S. largely same political system, but separate head of government and head of state.

samcster94

Banned
Probably the best chance for the de facto establishment of parliamentary government in the US was pre-1900--the Andrew Johnson impeachment. Indeed, that was seen to be the real issue in the impeachment fight by some observers at the time.

Consider what was written by a friend of J.A. Garfield (quoted in W.R. Brock, *An American Crisis: Congress and Reconstruction 1865-1867*, Harper Torchbooks edition, p. 260): "The next great question to be decided in our history is this--is the National Legislature to be as omnipotent in American politics as the English is in English politics?...May we not anticipate a time when the President will no more think of vetoing a bill passed by Congress than the British Crown thinks of doing the same thing?"

Also note the remarks of Wisconsin Senator Timothy Howe on the Tenure of Office Act: when a Democratic Senator referred to the President's "own cabinet" Howe specifically denied that it was such. It was, he said, "the Cabinet of the people." He compared the American and British systems and said of cabinet members that "it is no more necessary that they should be on confidential terms with the president than that they should be on confidential terms with the representatives of the people."(Brock, p. 259)

I doubt that such views would prevail even if Johnson were convicted. Once Grant would be elected president in 1868 (after a few months interim rule by Wade) it seems unlikely that Congressional Republicans would adhere to such an unorthodox position on legislative-executive relations. To the extent that they came to such a position even temporarily in OTL, it was only due to extreme frustration with Johnson's systematic sabotage of Congress's Reconstruction policy (originally, John Sherman did not even want to include Cabinet officers in the Tenure of Office Act). With a popular president of their own party, they would probably revert to more traditional practice.
OTL pre T. Roosevelt post Lincoln already had some elements of this due to a weak President. The idea of something like a "Semi-Presidential" system{the Speaker of the House is akin to a Prime Minister in this universe}, akin to France or post Communist Romania, would probably have a small chance of happening in TTL, especially if T. Roosevelt, W. Wilson, or anyone like either man was butterflied way.
 
. . . The idea of something like a "Semi-Presidential" system{the Speaker of the House is akin to a Prime Minister in this universe}, akin to France or post Communist Romania, would probably have a small chance of happening in TTL, . . .
And I actually like the idea of multiple, even competing, timelines bouncing around in one thread. And this has as much a chance of a post-Reconstruction, parliamentary-flavored system as any, better than most.

But I also have in mind a much smaller change, namely that a 'People's Ambassador' periodically elected by the Senate really catches on.
 
So, in the 1979 and '80 stagflation, which can definitely be viewed as a period of uncertainty, the (?) 'First Citizen' meets with a variety of citizens as always.

At a weekend conference on economics, he — or she — says, I've talked with parents who are concerned about their young adult children getting good jobs, and are concerned about their parents and other older adults not having their savings eaten up by inflation. And I've talked with senior citizens who most definitely are concerned about inflation, but are also concerned about their grandchildren reaching adulthood finding jobs, as well as the grandchildren of their friends. I spoke with one older man who said, jobs are always a numbers game, but today more than ever. And, isn't that the truth.

That is, generally uplifting and optimistic stuff, and acting as a unifier.

And when Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip visit the United States, the First Citizen and his or her spouse are the primary people who host the visit, as well as perhaps a courtesy visit to the President. (Again, President just as strong politically, just has less ceremonial functions.)
 

samcster94

Banned
And I actually like the idea of multiple, even competing, timelines bouncing around in one thread. And this has as much a chance of a post-Reconstruction, parliamentary-flavored system as any, better than most.

But I also have in mind a much smaller change, namely that a 'People's Ambassador' periodically elected by the Senate really catches on.
I like this idea(and such a figure, even if limited in role(like breaking deadlocks like the Gov. General did in Australia), could be quite useful{an amendment making the office nonpartisan in an alt. 1970's could be useful, with a term that is 12 years, but is always in an odd year{2009-2021}).
 
For example, in the last five years or so, Veterans Administration hospitals have twice been caught keeping secret waiting lists even though they say they don't and they say the wait times are good.

So, the 'Public Citizen' might say, Institutions do this, unless we place a lot of efforts and a lot of focus so they won't. And it's okay for chief executives to push for better numbers. The problem comes when a chief executive states or implies, I don't care how you do it.

So, the 'Public Citizen' would talk with a variety of veterans organizations and a variety of individual veterans and veteran families. His or her staff would make some judgement calls on what are the more credible organizations where the Public Citizen would focus the majority of his or her time. And plenty of other issues! Plenty to keep the Public Citizen busy.
 


http://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/ne...hite-his-wife-kathryn-and-picture-id631621834

Queen Elizabeth with Boston Mayor Kevin White on July 11, 1976.

To her credit, the Queen graciously visited the United States for the Bicentennial from July 7th to 11th, 1976. ('So, how are you colonists getting along on your own?' 'We're actually doing rather alright, thank you.')

===================

If we had had a 'First Citizen' or 'Public Citizen', he or she would have primarily been the host, and not President and First Lady Ford. I also envision this person speaking encouragingly and realistically/optimistically during post-Watergate, during the '75 recession and stagflation, and during '79-'80 stagflation. Although not politically, for the 1980, maybe such a statement as, 'We the American public have three good candidates, and we will make up our mind, as we always do.'

1) Who might this person be in the 1970s?

2) And can you help me with a better title than 'First Citizen'?
 
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samcster94

Banned
Would "Consul of the Republic" work??? It does seem militaristic(given the title is Roman and until the populist Julius Caesar took power, was a temporary position), but this figure could work out deals with Congress/President before going to war{but the figure is not}. I'm not clear who would get this position, but I shudder if it is given to George Wallace(even if he had stopped being overtly racist).
 
Mayor Kevin White from above would be a possible candidate! And his wife Mrs. Kathryn Galvin White would attend most public ceremonies with her husband.

Or, perhaps another big city mayor who leaves office popular.

And he could greet departing and returning Olympic teams at a famous location in Boston or Philly, with a large office wing attached to it which he could operate out of. Or, perhaps not merely the geographical center of the U.S., but center of U.S. per population?
 
Would "Consul of the Republic" work??? . . .
Maybe. I do appreciate the fact that you're in there pitching.

Again, I have in mind nonpolitical. This person's approval is not needed before war. Maybe in 2003, during the beginning of war against Iraq, this person would make a point of attending a service person's funeral in each region of the country, some President Bush was not able to do because one he started he didn't see how he could avoid attending every funeral. This is a valid concern, but there has to be a better way.

And during the 2008-2009 financial institution meltdown, this person would talk with parents, grandparents, college students, high school students, etc. He, or she, would speak in favor of the American Dream and, again, remind us of all our best values and traditions, and our successes of the past. The Senate would have selected someone good at summarizing, and who does so in a respectful way.
 
Richards,Ann.jpg


Maybe former Texas Governor Ann Richards? Say a respectful year or two after she loses the governor's race to George W. Bush, could be voted by the Senate to be America's 'First Citizen.'

Say assuming the office in 1996, one five-term year and per tradition, if she's in good health and doing a solid job, a second five-year term. And on very rare occasions, a third five-year term. As it was, Ann Richards went on to the great beyond on Sept. 13, 2006.

Later addition:

 
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Richards,Ann.jpg


Maybe former Texas Governor Ann Richards? Say a respectful year or two after she loses the governor's race to George W. Bush, could be voted by the Senate to be America's 'First Citizen.'

Say assuming the office in 1996, one five-term year and per tradition, if she's in good health and doing a solid job, a second five-year term. And on very rare occasions, a third five-year term. As it was, Ann Richards went on to the great beyond on Sept. 13, 2006.
So a random governor is elected by the senate out of the blue as a rival head of state to the president in 1996?
 
So a random governor is elected by the senate out of the blue as a rival head of state to the president in 1996?
Yeah, basically.

But it's a long standing tradition going back all the way to the 1920s. And it was worked very well over the years (this is a very important part of this developing ATL).
 
Yeah, basically.

But it's a long standing tradition going back all the way to the 1920s. And it was worked very well over the years (this is a very important part of this developing ATL).
The butterfly effect? Most of these people wouldn't have been born, let alone go into politics.
 
I think President Bush did a very good and solid job on the speech he gave on the evening of Sept. 11th. He said, none of us will ever forget this day. We will not live in fear, essential government services will reopen this evening, and the rest of government tomorrow morning.

But on the weeks following, he was not able to follow up on the desire of many American citizens to engage in meaningful volunteer activities, because he had a hundred other things to do. If Ann Richards had been First Citizen and yes, she brought in some of her own staff and some of the existing staff stayed on as was the tradition, she could have devoted a lot more hours to this. Okay, what work needs to be done, and what work could untrained volunteers actually help out with? And she would basically just talk with people honestly and candidly. And she would make recommendations without overdoing it.

In a sense, simply informal leadership, but this can accomplish a lot.
 
In addition . . .

More citizens would have felt more confident questioning the early details of the Patriot Act, without the nagging worry that they're being unpatriotic or will be perceived as unpatriotic.

As well as the early details in the occupation and rebuilding of Afghanistan. Or, as I know someone who has talked about, take a 1 out of 5 chance that we can limit the fight to only al Qaeda. Get the Afghan ambassador on the phone and tell him, We must fight al Qaeda, our citizens demand nothing less. . . . . Now, the government of Afghanistan was the Taliban who were quite fervent but not international terrorists. Plus, no country likes their territory invaded. So, at best, just an outside chance.

All the same, the fact that citizens feel more confident speaking out about governmental policy, I'd very much count as another advantage of having a formal Head of State.
 
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The butterfly effect? Most of these people wouldn't have been born, let alone go into politics.
Definitely, especially since I'm envisioning a somewhat higher trajectory.

This is an occupation hazard of alternate history, and I'd be interested in the ideas of various people of what might be some good ways to handle this.
 
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