Where would the "center" of Arab culture move when Cairo is lost, if that model is even meaningful?
AHC: Turkish Egypt instead of Anatolia
- Thread starter NolanFoster
- Start date
Can we elaborate a bit on context?
I doubt Egypt could be turcicised unless Turkish groups were bringing with them a good number of cultural memes as well as the language.
To Anatolia they brought Islam and nomadism as well as the language. What are they bringing to Egypt that means they don't get assimilated and local society adopts their cultural package.
If they've managed Egypt I think it's fairly likely the Levant will have been turcicised as well, so maybe the Maghreb?
I doubt Egypt could be turcicised unless Turkish groups were bringing with them a good number of cultural memes as well as the language.
To Anatolia they brought Islam and nomadism as well as the language. What are they bringing to Egypt that means they don't get assimilated and local society adopts their cultural package.
If they've managed Egypt I think it's fairly likely the Levant will have been turcicised as well, so maybe the Maghreb?
I don't know. Any POD after the rise of the Fatimids that makes Egypt Turkic instead of Anatolia.
Why?
Egyptians paid taxes anyway. Why bother?
Seriously, though, the mostly Turkic ruling elite of post-Ayyubid Egypt did not come there as a culturally cohesive, compact immigrant group, and they also took legitimacy from protecting/sponsoring the existing Muslim culture with its ties to Arabic.
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Hard to see Egypt "Turkifying" like Anatolia did, it seems less conducive to the pastoralism practiced by the Turkoman groups.
I feel like you would need s POD that significantly strengthens Byzantium defenses in anitolia in order to funnal the turks south towerd the Arabs instead as a easier target with any number of the "16 Great Turkish Empires"
en.m.wikipedia.org
(prehapse considering the terrain of the Fertile Cresent more attractive then mountainous anitolia) and place more priority on the middle east then otl during thier invasions and overtime lowering the native populations with invasions while resaturating the Fertile Cresent with the Turkish populations and customs brought by the various empires
As for a location, assuming a east to west invasion I feel like it's almost impossible for eygipt to fall to such a degree while keeping Damascus and Bagdad in arab hands so I think we can write them off (theoreticly they might exist as a frontline city under constant seidge but that's not a good location do to economic surpluses being consumed by defense and not cultural centers) so I would assume outside of mecca it might migrant west towerd northwest Africa and occupy a space similer to the Fatimide Calipate but now divorced from eygipt I would assume Tunis, Raqqada or Mahdia would develop into a arab cultural center (the entire north east of Tunisia might honestly becuse all 3 city's are clustered fairly close together and in close proximity to the emirate of Sicily if it survives)
Alternitivly assuming Islam is able to reestablish control over Iberia with the aid of refugee populations from the Fertile Cresent that somewhere in Central or Southern Spain might develop into the leading arab cultural center.
If a strong Islamic calipate can unite these regions west of Turkish eygipt I could see a western calipate claiming to be a succesor to Carthage as opposed to the otl Ottomans claiming to being the succesor of Eastern Rome with the right motivation.
As a side note a western arab calipate would be in a good position for colonization without having to worry about being bottled up in the mediteranian per OTL and without otl competition from Portugal and Spain due to them being part of the calipate then the lack of thier claims and competition would dramatically change up who fills this now empty space.
16 Great Turkic Empires - Wikipedia
As for a location, assuming a east to west invasion I feel like it's almost impossible for eygipt to fall to such a degree while keeping Damascus and Bagdad in arab hands so I think we can write them off (theoreticly they might exist as a frontline city under constant seidge but that's not a good location do to economic surpluses being consumed by defense and not cultural centers) so I would assume outside of mecca it might migrant west towerd northwest Africa and occupy a space similer to the Fatimide Calipate but now divorced from eygipt I would assume Tunis, Raqqada or Mahdia would develop into a arab cultural center (the entire north east of Tunisia might honestly becuse all 3 city's are clustered fairly close together and in close proximity to the emirate of Sicily if it survives)
Alternitivly assuming Islam is able to reestablish control over Iberia with the aid of refugee populations from the Fertile Cresent that somewhere in Central or Southern Spain might develop into the leading arab cultural center.
If a strong Islamic calipate can unite these regions west of Turkish eygipt I could see a western calipate claiming to be a succesor to Carthage as opposed to the otl Ottomans claiming to being the succesor of Eastern Rome with the right motivation.
As a side note a western arab calipate would be in a good position for colonization without having to worry about being bottled up in the mediteranian per OTL and without otl competition from Portugal and Spain due to them being part of the calipate then the lack of thier claims and competition would dramatically change up who fills this now empty space.
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I'm thinking possibly the best time for this to happen is an alternate Mongols, where the original conquerors have a more solidified cultural package that includes a yasa that's well known and officially codified, an expansion of the proto hadith type system they had, and where the Mongol garrisons live separate from the conquered populations. Theyd also need a script of their own to be used in administration.
Maybe this could also be tied in with propagating a Mongol religion, whether that's something entirely new, a revamped Nestorian Christianity, a strain of Buddhism mixed with the Mongol imperial cult.
In short, get a Turkic empire to pull an Islam culturally, and you might manage to get Egypt turcicised.
Maybe this could also be tied in with propagating a Mongol religion, whether that's something entirely new, a revamped Nestorian Christianity, a strain of Buddhism mixed with the Mongol imperial cult.
In short, get a Turkic empire to pull an Islam culturally, and you might manage to get Egypt turcicised.