AHC: Triumph of the Reformation

What if the Reformation was much more successfull than in OTL? How far could it spread? And what would be the fate of the Roman-Catholic Church and the Pope?
 
What if the Reformation was much more successfull than in OTL? How far could it spread? And what would be the fate of the Roman-Catholic Church and the Pope?

You'd probably need something which gets rid of the support for Catholicism in some of the places that stayed Catholic - like say, Spain.

Otherwise, it was mostly successful.
 
You'd probably need something which gets rid of the support for Catholicism in some of the places that stayed Catholic - like say, Spain.
Spain? I would think that Catholicism would be especially strong there.
Otherwise, it was mostly successful.
Really?
Many regions that joined the Reformation until 1546 were re-catholicized until the end of the 30 Years War. Examples: Bohemia, Austria, Styria, Rhineland ...
 
Spain? I would think that Catholicism would be especially strong there.

That's my point, the places that were especially Catholic have to go Protestant.

Really?
Many regions that joined the Reformation until 1546 were re-catholicized until the end of the 30 Years War. Examples: Bohemia, Austria, Styria, Rhineland ...

Don't forget the places that stayed Protestant/Reformed, though.
 
I'll have to check the books when I get home but as Barbarossa Rotbart mentioned Austria went pretty Protestant in places and one of the Archdukes was considered to be fairly pro-Protestants, IIRC he actually sent away the Catholic priests and refused last rights whilst on his deathbed. A couple of nudges here and and could we get a Protestant Holy Roman Emperor?
 
Poland-Lithuania can go protestant. They had a Lutheran majority at one point, until the Jesuits managed to retake the land. Calvinism was also rather strong among the Lithuanian upper classes. A Polish-Lithuanian Royal Church isn't out of the question.
 
in france you would need a king that keeps the Edict of Nantes up, and doesnt butcher the hugenots the way louis XIV did.
 
That beg an old question and potential problem who appeared in modern days, falls of USSR and all - the hostility between Orthodoxy and Protestants in now...

If Prostantism gain even more power, AND maybe get dangerously closer... The relations between those branches of Christianism may get cold.
 
France can plausibly go Calvinist provided that the King realizes they're very useful both in and out of his Kingdom.

As for Spain, if the Habsburgs still end up ruling it, you may end up with an Anglican-esque situation if the Habsburgs feel the Pope isn't Catholic enough.

Poland can very well convert too - Remember Sigismund II's (attempted) marriage to a Calvinist?
 
The War of the League of Cambrai goes much worse for the French than OTL, and the Concordat of Bologna (which basically gave the French monarchy control of the Catholic hierarchy within France) never happens. The Pope and the French King continue to have a much worse relationship than OTL. Meanwhile, the Diet of Worms and the early part of the Reformation still happens.

At some point, the French King (Francis I, or an ATL successor) gets into another fight with the Pope over juresdiction over the church in France. Said fight escalates to the Pope threatening to excommunicate Francis...at which point, Francis pulls a Henry VIII and siezes control of the church in France. Of course, he probably has to fight some rebellions by Catholic nobles, but lets say by the late 1500's France is very firmly Protestant, and in somewhat better financial shape than OTL since the church's landholdings have all been turned into crown lands. Meanwhile, Polish Lutherans get one of their own elected to the Sejm. At this point, the only two Catholic major powers are the Hapsburg lands, Austria and Spain, and Austria can probably be brought down by a combination of France, Poland-Lithuania, Scandinavia, and the Protestant German states. Which, of course, leaves only Spain. Take your pick on whether it follows the trend and goes Protestant, or rushes headlong into the jaws of Protestant Europe (possibly to try and save Austria) only to have the French, English, and Dutch take its overseas empire apart.

And...by 1800, the Papacy is a fading memory, and from Trondheim to Sicily, and Warsaw to Lisbon, Europe sings the praises of Luther and Calvin.
 
The War of the League of Cambrai goes much worse for the French than OTL, and the Concordat of Bologna (which basically gave the French monarchy control of the Catholic hierarchy within France) never happens. The Pope and the French King continue to have a much worse relationship than OTL. Meanwhile, the Diet of Worms and the early part of the Reformation still happens.

At some point, the French King (Francis I, or an ATL successor) gets into another fight with the Pope over juresdiction over the church in France. Said fight escalates to the Pope threatening to excommunicate Francis...at which point, Francis pulls a Henry VIII and siezes control of the church in France. Of course, he probably has to fight some rebellions by Catholic nobles, but lets say by the late 1500's France is very firmly Protestant, and in somewhat better financial shape than OTL since the church's landholdings have all been turned into crown lands. Meanwhile, Polish Lutherans get one of their own elected to the Sejm. At this point, the only two Catholic major powers are the Hapsburg lands, Austria and Spain, and Austria can probably be brought down by a combination of France, Poland-Lithuania, Scandinavia, and the Protestant German states. Which, of course, leaves only Spain. Take your pick on whether it follows the trend and goes Protestant, or rushes headlong into the jaws of Protestant Europe (possibly to try and save Austria) only to have the French, English, and Dutch take its overseas empire apart.

And...by 1800, the Papacy is a fading memory, and from Trondheim to Sicily, and Warsaw to Lisbon, Europe sings the praises of Luther and Calvin.

Spain could be TTL's Gallican analogue, just saying; with the Pope being their puppet and Roman Catholicism extinguished, replaced by Spanish Catholicism.

;)
 
Poland-Lithuania can go protestant. They had a Lutheran majority at one point, until the Jesuits managed to retake the land. Calvinism was also rather strong among the Lithuanian upper classes. A Polish-Lithuanian Royal Church isn't out of the question.

The Polish Protestants basically victims of World War II and the Counter reformation actually, they were either forced to be catholics or expelled in those events.
 
That depends on how you define this. Initially the reformation wanted to reform the catholic church and keep it united; eventually reforms were made with the counter reformation (a reaction to protestantism including reforms), but by that point the church certainly wasn't united anymore.

OTOH if you define triumph as the whole of Europe turning protestant, that didn't happen either.

The reformation did have a large effect, but given the fact that it also was one of the reasons for armed conflict, I wouldn't call OTL a triumph.
 
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