AHC Three Way Wank- South America

SunDeep

Banned
Similar to the 3-way wank challenges in N. America, E. Europe & the British Isles. Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to come up with an ATL where Brazil, Argentina AND Paraguay all get wanked relative to OTL (and yes, they do all have to be independent nations as well) by the present day. Would this be possible? And if so, what would be the latest (non-ASB) POD which could set such a TL in motion?
 

Deleted member 67076

I'm inclined to say no. All 3 had conflicting and overlapping interests and would eventually clash.

Its kind of like saying wank France, Germany and Italy at the same time. Now, you can certainly have each do better than OTL without too much trouble, but wanking all 3 at the same time is doubtful.
 

SunDeep

Banned
I'm inclined to say no. All 3 had conflicting and overlapping interests and would eventually clash.

Its kind of like saying wank France, Germany and Italy at the same time. Now, you can certainly have each do better than OTL without too much trouble, but wanking all 3 at the same time is doubtful.

Well, that's why it's a challenge, isn't it? ;)
 
Let's see. Avoid the War of the Triple Alliance. Paraguay keeps balancing Argentina and Brazil. Neither the Argentine or Brazilian governments are willing to go to war against each other (as in OTL).
Paraguay's economy continues to develop and maybe they manage to industrialize a bit due state subsidies to heavy industry, as Solano Lopez was planning. Argentina was undergoing very fast growth by that time. I don't know about Brazil, as I don't know much about Brazilian history. They'll deal with the butterflies of no War of the Triple Alliance.

So enter the 20th Century and all three countries have growing economies. Avoid the Chaco War or make sure Paraguay defeats Bolivia fast. Find the way to keep economic growth through the 20th Century and while we won't have three South American super powers, all three countries will be a lot more prosperous and powerful.
 
Let's see. Avoid the War of the Triple Alliance. Paraguay keeps balancing Argentina and Brazil. Neither the Argentine or Brazilian governments are willing to go to war against each other (as in OTL).
Paraguay's economy continues to develop and maybe they manage to industrialize a bit due state subsidies to heavy industry, as Solano Lopez was planning. Argentina was undergoing very fast growth by that time. I don't know about Brazil, as I don't know much about Brazilian history. They'll deal with the butterflies of no War of the Triple Alliance.

So enter the 20th Century and all three countries have growing economies. Avoid the Chaco War or make sure Paraguay defeats Bolivia fast. Find the way to keep economic growth through the 20th Century and while we won't have three South American super powers, all three countries will be a lot more prosperous and powerful.

This would basically be the only way to do it. And you aren't quite wanking them as you are just developing them further. Paraguay would have a tad more territory since it would keep what it lost in OTL and likely take more from Bolivia. Argentina might compensate with a better border deal with Chile, but it is not much different.

Brazil with no War of Triple Alliance will likely keep the monarchy and avoid the instability that followed. Meaning it would continue to develop its navy quite a bit, and emerge as a mayor maritime power (at least in the south atlantic).

But it is still not a wank.
 
Argentina and Brazil, that can work.

Paraguay is a no no. Paraguay can not become even a regional power if Brazil or Argentina are to become powers.

You are better off choosing The Peru-Bolivia Confederation or Gran Colombia. They at least had the change to develop into regional+ powers.
 

SunDeep

Banned
Argentina and Brazil, that can work.

Paraguay is a no no. Paraguay can not become even a regional power if Brazil or Argentina are to become powers.

You are better off choosing The Peru-Bolivia Confederation or Gran Colombia. They at least had the change to develop into regional+ powers.

WI it becomes the Paraguay-Bolivian confederation instead in an ATL, with the Paraguayans marching in to 'liberate' La Paz instead of the Peruvians? With the Peru-Bolivian Confederation or Gran Colombia as the third player in South America, given that none of those three nations IOTL had land borders until after the Paraguayan War, it'd be too easy; but with Paraguay, you actually have to put in a bit of effort in to see how one might bring about such an outcome.
 
Even with that, what stops the Brazilians or Argentinians from stomping on Paraguay? Paraguay needs a port to become a world power. Until then it's just a regional power at best. So it needs to attack Peru. This action will not go unnoticed by the by Brazil or Argentina. Even if Paraguay doesn't incur the aggression, then it will have a difficult enough time just staying together. Just like OTL Confederation.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
This is like France, Germany, and Lichtenstein...

This is like France, Germany, and Lichtenstein...

Best,
 
More like France, Germany and the Netherlands.
It is pretty hard to wank the Netherlands at the same time as France and Germany. At best you could give the Netherlands Flanders (which is not much of a wank), which means that France is not able to get its Rhine Border or germany get its north sea coast. More or less the same is true for Brasil, Argentina and Paraguay. Actualy, I would say that the European situation is easier as you can give the three countries a bunch of colonies, which is a lot harder for the three South American countries.
 
Ok so here what's going to have to happen for this to work even in the slightest.

Paraguay needs to win the Triple Alliance War. It needs to beat Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina. It needs to annex the Rio Grande region from Brazil, Annex Uruguay and the Misiones, Corrientes and Entre Rios from Argentina. Doing this will give Paraguay what it needs to become a regional power. After that it will need to expand into Africa to get any bigger.

Here’s how you do it. Get GB to support Paraguay. Change South American history so GB invests into Paraguay rather than Argentina. When the war start GB intervenes and helps. At the same time change it so the French government invests into Argentina to counter GB. Have the USA invest into Brazil and you have yourself a nice 3 power Great Game for South America. Delay the Monroe Doctrine for as long as possible.

Get France to help Argentina annex Chile. The USA needs to help Brazil gain colonies in Africa. Then let them all just sit there. Stop them from going to war against each other and just let them grow. Turn them into democracies and let them just grow. What would be good is if the USA imploded. Have the Civil War last longer and have longer resistance post war. Weaken the USA to such a point that they simply cannot influence much beyond their border. Would help to have Mexico win the War for Texas.

A good way to stop the three going back to war with each other is the world powers intervening each time. The problem comes with WW1 or WW2. The old powers are not going to be able to enforce peace on them. A way around this is to make the USA an enemy. Unite the Three South America Powers in response to USA aggression. In other words make WWII happen in the Americas as well.

Actually the more I think about it the more I like it. The USA a member of the Axis attacks Mexico on the offset of Allied declaration of war, in the goal of recovering their “rightful territories.” The USA annex’s Mexico. Following the defeat of France, the USA DoW’s GB and invades Canada. Following their invasion the Three powers of South America become increasingly worried by the action of the USA. They put aside their difference when the USA launches an invasion of Colombia to seize control of the Panama Canal.

Now that is a TL I would love to read! 
 
BELGRANO TRIUMPH

Perhaps with this pod :Battle of paraguari is won by Col. Belgrano.

Belgrano's Paraguayan campaign successfully and then go to liberation of ''Alto Peru''(High Peru was the Bolivia's colonial name).

Gen. Artigas triumph (he was the federalist leader and ideologist in OTL) ;there are not politics anarchy OTL .He become in the gobernant of the United Provinces of South America ( viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata).

Liberation of Chile by the army of General San Martin (OTL);Chilean people request to join the new nation. The Guayaquil meeting buterflied and Peru is liberated by Bolivar . The great Colombia and the United Provinces allied defeat the Empire of Brazil . With Brazil reduced to the borders of the Treaty
of Madrid(1750) and surrounded by enemies never becomes independent and turns intopart of a dual monarchy.PortoBrazil Today is a great Euroamerican power conserving and extending its colonial empire. But not to level of the only ones SouthAmerican nations could rival U.S.A .
 
If Wanking means territorial gain, ain't gonna happen. However, you can make Argentina and Brazil into major powers, beyond OTL. Takes a bit of magic, but there's no reason 2 big powers can't develop along side each other. get rid of the War of Triple alliance, and you can allow Paraguay to grow into more of a power. Dreams of expanding to Bolivia/Peru are fantasy. Paraguay got to be Paraguay precisely because it was so isolated from everything else. You might as well wank Brazil taking over Venezuela. P has one direction to go, and that's to Argentina and Brazil, and your challenge automatically precludes that.

fantasy wank could possibly have Argentina retain more of the plata viceroyalty. Paraguay could take more of Brazil (especially if the crown doesn't transfer there). Brazil has nowhere to go territorially except to hold onto Uruguay (assuming the original challenge of A and P being wanks, too). Expansion through the amazon is ASB. Although, you could wank Brazil by keeping the crown there and taking colonial possessions from Portugal, namely, Angola/Mozambique (and everything in between).

So: A keeps viceroyalty. P takes corrientes/missiones (maybe Entre Rios) P can expand a bit in a few directions - nothing of importance, but the map gets bigger. Brazil gets colonies. There you go, a three way wank.
 
Perhaps with this pod :Battle of paraguari is won by Col. Belgrano.

Belgrano's Paraguayan campaign successfully and then go to liberation of ''Alto Peru''(High Peru was the Bolivia's colonial name).

Gen. Artigas triumph (he was the federalist leader and ideologist in OTL) ;there are not politics anarchy OTL .He become in the gobernant of the United Provinces of South America ( viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata).

Liberation of Chile by the army of General San Martin (OTL);Chilean people request to join the new nation. The Guayaquil meeting buterflied and Peru is liberated by Bolivar . The great Colombia and the United Provinces allied defeat the Empire of Brazil . With Brazil reduced to the borders of the Treaty
of Madrid(1750) and surrounded by enemies never becomes independent and turns intopart of a dual monarchy.PortoBrazil Today is a great Euroamerican power conserving and extending its colonial empire. But not to level of the only ones SouthAmerican nations could rival U.S.A .
And you may have an Argentina Wank, but not an Argentina, Paraguay and Brazil wank at the same time.
 
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