AHC: Thrash Metal WITHOUT Metallica

How would you have the thrash metal scene develop without Metallica (maybe Lars decides to become a tennis pro instead of a drummer, and hetfield never develops out of garage bands)? Who would be the top thrash band if no Metallica and would it be very different?
 
You mean Bay Area trash metal,there is where Metallica missing could have some influence for ex: will Megadeth still form,it is also possible that they still form and they play the role that Metallica played originally.

Other thinks that might change is band like Korn and others that have been influenced by Metallica.

And then there is the influence that Lars and Hatfield head on Metallica and how much the others have.you could still get some sort of Metallica if the others meet to form a band.

Other then that nothing Metallica is not that important for the trash scene,for ex venom is much more influential and them missing could have a bigger impact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrash_metal
 
How would you have the thrash metal scene develop without Metallica (maybe Lars decides to become a tennis pro instead of a drummer, and hetfield never develops out of garage bands)? Who would be the top thrash band if no Metallica and would it be very different?

Would that be a good opening for Crossover Thrash?

I'd love to see a timeline where Suicidal Tendencies hit the bigtime with a slightly more refined "Join The Army" album (IMO one of the most under-rated albums as it is..)
 
Would that be a good opening for Crossover Thrash?

I'd love to see a timeline where Suicidal Tendencies hit the bigtime with a slightly more refined "Join The Army" album (IMO one of the most under-rated albums as it is..)


Rocky George is is a great guitar player. I saw Suicidal Tendencies open for Queensrych, shortly after their "Lights, Camera, Revolution" album came out, and they just RAGED onstage - a great show! IMO, they really didn't hit their stride until their "How Will I Laugh Tomorrow, When I Can't Even Smile Today" album came out. For "Join The Army" to become more (for lack of a better term) "listenable" to your typical John and Jane Q. Metalhead, it would have to lose a major amount of its punk rock feel (fast and short songs, with oftentimes little to no lead guitar work). "Join The Army" was the first album to feature Rocky George on lead guitar, and the music on the album very much feels to me, like they were trying to get used to having a lead guitarist in the band, so (as a guitar player) some of the lead guitar work is a little tentative sounding to me. Nah, the album would need major revamping to get to the level of later 'Suicidal albums.

As for thrash metal without Metallica - there were other thrash bands out there during the same time that Metallica hit the scene: Slayer; Exodus; Anthrax; Overkill; Nuclear Assault; etc. Thrash metal might be delayed in its rise to prominence, but I think it will occur - there were many metal listeners (and musicians like me), who were were sick of hair metal (ugh!), and even the leather and rhinestone stuff of bands like Judas Priest, who were looking for something a bit more stripped down (ala punk rock [and Motorhead for that matter]), faster, and more intense.

It's also possible that the bands I mentioned (including Motorhead with regards to the U.S. market), would see a bit more popularity, since they wouldn't become overshadowed by Metallica.
 
Last edited:
Rocky George is is a great guitar player. I saw Suicidal Tendencies open for Queensrych, shortly after their "Lights, Camera, Revolution" album came out, and they just RAGED onstage - a great show! IMO, they really didn't hit their stride until their "How Will I Laugh, When I Can't Even Smile Today" album came out. For "Join The Army" to become more (for lack of a better term) "listenable" to your typical John and Jane Q. Metalhead, it would have to lose a major amount of its punk rock feel (fast and short songs, with oftentimes little to no lead guitar work). "Join The Army" was the first album to feature Rocky George on lead guitar, and the music on the album very much feels to me, like they were trying to get used to having a lead guitarist in the band, so (as a guitar player) some of the lead guitar work is a little tentative sounding to me. Nah, the album would need major revamping to get to the level of later 'Suicidal albums.

What attracts me to "Join The Army" is the sheer grab-bag of influences at play. They hadn't totally shaken off their hardcore punk roots, Mike sings in a yelp reminiscent of Lemmy, and there's elements of old school rap in there for good measure.

Most of those those funk & rap influences got spun-off & developed further into the Mike's side project Infectious Grooves (which of course featured a certain R Trujillo on bass.. ;) ) But a more successful "Join The Army" may mean rap-metal/funk metal becomes more popular earlier.

Another branch of the heavy metal tree to consider here is the SST records roster. Sure it was ostensibly Black Flag's hardcore punk indie label.. however it's roster of bands ranged to almost every corner of hard rock & heavy metal (and various points beyond - consider the Meat Puppets' take on country & the jazz-punk of the Minutemen.)

What chance that with no Metallica an SST band breaks through metal fans' anti-punk prejudices and does really really well?
 
What attracts me to "Join The Army" is the sheer grab-bag of influences at play. They hadn't totally shaken off their hardcore punk roots, Mike sings in a yelp reminiscent of Lemmy, and there's elements of old school rap in there for good measure.

Most of those those funk & rap influences got spun-off & developed further into the Mike's side project Infectious Grooves (which of course featured a certain R Trujillo on bass.. ;) ) But a more successful "Join The Army" may mean rap-metal/funk metal becomes more popular earlier.

Another branch of the heavy metal tree to consider here is the SST records roster. Sure it was ostensibly Black Flag's hardcore punk indie label.. however it's roster of bands ranged to almost every corner of hard rock & heavy metal (and various points beyond - consider the Meat Puppets' take on country & the jazz-punk of the Minutemen.)

What chance that with no Metallica an SST band breaks through metal fans' anti-punk prejudices and does really really well?

Yeah, "Join The Army" certainly is a grab bag ("Possessed To Skate" is one of the cooler songs on that album IMO). It just didn't seem to slam like songs like "Sorry" (off of "How Will I Laugh Tomorrow, When I Can't Even Smile Today"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOOdW4PuOK4

As for an SST record label thrash band - it might be possible. After all as Scott Hill of Fu Manchu mentioned in an interview I read a few years ago, Black Flag's later material was heading in a heavier, more Black Sabbathy vein (I agree with him - It doesn't sound like the buzzsaw stuff they were doing on the late 70s & early 80s), so they were certaily opening up to more metallic influences. Don't forget that SST did have a few non-punk bands on its roster (Soundgarden's first full length album "Ultramega OK" was on the SST label). I'm not 100% sure but a few of them may have been metal oriented.

Crossover thrash is definitely a possibility. They were already out there in the late 80s (don't forget that C.O.C. was a crossover thash/metal band for a goodly chunk of the 80s & early 90s).
 
Thrash Metal would probably hit the same stride in the 80's (although without The Black Album the 90's will probably be dominated by the Groove Metal of Pantera).

I doubt Dave Mustaine's Megadeth would have the same intensity as he practically formed that band out of spite for being ejected from Metallica.

Would this mean there would be a different 'Big Four'? (If any?).

What would this mean for Extreme Metal in general?
 
I doubt Dave Mustaine's Megadeth would have the same intensity as he practically formed that band out of spite for being ejected from Metallica.

Well probably Dave will get throw out of some other band.

Would this mean there would be a different 'Big Four'? (If any?).

The big Four refers to the most popular band in thrash metal (and by some the most influential) well probably with out Metallica Slayer and Exodus will not exclude each other out so probably Anthrax, Megadeth, Exodus, Slayer


What would this mean for Extreme Metal in general?

Extreme Metal to large to be influence by Metallica,i think we have to narrow the question to the American Extreme Metal,since the Europe scene is influence by what is going on in Europe.

I think is boils down to how much is popularity and what influence and where the tow coincide.

I belive that Metallica, is more popular then influence.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, "Join The Army" certainly is a grab bag ("Possessed To Skate" is one of the cooler songs on that album IMO). It just didn't seem to slam like songs like "Sorry" (off of "How Will I Laugh Tomorrow, When I Can't Even Smile Today"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOOdW4PuOK4

As for an SST record label thrash band - it might be possible. After all as Scott Hill of Fu Manchu mentioned in an interview I read a few years ago, Black Flag's later material was heading in a heavier, more Black Sabbathy vein (I agree with him - It doesn't sound like the buzzsaw stuff they were doing on the late 70s & early 80s), so they were certaily opening up to more metallic influences. Don't forget that SST did have a few non-punk bands on its roster (Soundgarden's first full length album "Ultramega OK" was on the SST label). I'm not 100% sure but a few of them may have been metal oriented.

Crossover thrash is definitely a possibility. They were already out there in the late 80s (don't forget that C.O.C. was a crossover thash/metal band for a goodly chunk of the 80s & early 90s).

Some good points above.

ST definitely needed a sharper focus in the mid-80s to get any traction in the metal scene. After 'Join the Army' they could've gone in any number of directions - even power pop. (The song "Looking in Your Eyes" certainly opened that door). Once Infectious Grooves was underway as an outlet for all things humorous and funky, that gave ST their focus back as a thrash band. Hard to see that sort of thing taking off in the mid 1980s - it took a lot of work from IG, Chilli Peppers etc before funk became an 'acceptable' influence within metal in the 1990s.

As for SST - although the production often left a lot to be desired, the songwriting talent was certainly there across many different strands of hard rock & metal.

eg: SWA "Wasting My Time"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY_EKk-TFvU

I think a key change for SST to achieve more success is to get better producer(s) for their albums, someone who can fine-tune the production more effectively and edit where needed.

Tough ask for an indie label, let alone one in the production wasteland for rock that was the 1980s
 
IG, Chilli Peppers etc before funk became an 'acceptable' influence within metal in the 1990s.


RHCP had the same problem as Metallica; the had to make their sound more accessible. Freaky Styley like Kill 'em All had no chance of the radioplay that Bloodsugar... and The Black Album got. For big mainstream exposure, you need hits, a decent producer and a little luck.

What I'd like to discuss is who becomes Metallica in this TL? Who fills the void?
 
Anthrax certainly would make some noise... plus with their collaborations with Cypress Hill they could be musically more expansive.

Would any of the lesser known bands get a boost as a result?
 
Top