AHC: The Yankees Are Never As Good As OTL

Just as the tin says, your challenge, if you choose to accept it, is to make it so that that New York Yankees never become the powerhouse they are now.
 
I think we can start with Mickey Mantle going elsewhere and Babe Ruth staying with the Red Sox. Not a big baseball fan, so that's basically the extent of my knowledge.
 
Yawkey isn't a racist sob and signs Hank Aaron and Willie Mays to the Red Sox.
He had first chance to sign both of them and didn't because they were black. That's why they took his name off the street outside Fenway Park.
 
In the National League the teams were more balanced the attendance average of the teams was higher and than the American League.
Most of teams in the American League depended on the Yankees coming to town to make their money.
If the American League was more competitive then maybe teams like the St. Louis Browns and the Philadelphia Athletics would have stayed and the Cardinals and Phillies would have moved instead.
 
In the National League the teams were more balanced the attendance average of the teams was higher and than the American League.
Most of teams in the American League depended on the Yankees coming to town to make their money.
If the American League was more competitive then maybe teams like the St. Louis Browns and the Philadelphia Athletics would have stayed and the Cardinals and Phillies would have moved instead.
Don't forget about the Washington Senators who eventually moved to Minnesota. They were rarely competitive. At least the Philadelphia Athletics had some great competitive teams during the early 1900's 1911-1914, and the late 1920's team actually were rivals with the Murders Row Yankees of Gehrig and Ruth. I always found it ironic that the Cardinals were tenants of the Browns at Sportsmans Park all those years until the Browns sold it to them before they moved to Baltimore, and the A's sold Shibe Park, renamed Connie Mack stadium to the Phillies when they moved to Kansas City.
 
Don't forget about the Washington Senators who eventually moved to Minnesota.

I always forget about the First Senators move (before the Second Senators who then became the Rangers).
 
The Senators moved after the Browns moved to Baltimore, the original plan was that Minneapolis-St. Paul was going to get a expansion franchise along with Los Angeles but Calvin Griffith Sr. was a racist and the story was that when he found out how few African-Americans lived there and he moved the team and the expansion team went to Washington D.C.instead.
Fun Fact: Griffith Park were the Senators and the not to be named NFL team played (the team was also owned by a notorious racist William Preston Marshall) is now the Howard University medical school.
 
The Senators moved after the Browns moved to Baltimore, the original plan was that Minneapolis-St. Paul was going to get a expansion franchise along with Los Angeles but Calvin Griffith Sr. was a racist and the story was that when he found out how few African-Americans lived there and he moved the team and the expansion team went to Washington D.C.instead.
Fun Fact: Griffith Park were the Senators and the not to be named NFL team played (the team was also owned by a notorious racist William Preston Marshall) is now the Howard University medical school.

I thought my Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996? :teary:
 
I thought my Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996? :teary:

History has a funny way of repeating itself.

In any case, yes, have the Red Sox not be run by a canal of dipshits for eight fucking decades and it might sink the Yankees. That and avert the Black Sox scandal - have the White Sox players do literally anything other than consort with gamblers to throw the goddamn World Series. Have them unionize. Have them buy the team. Convince some post-industrial gazillionaire to buy Comiskey out and actually pay his players worth a shit. Have them be card sharps in the winter and play baseball because they like it. Whatever; it doesn’t matter - just keep them playing into the 20s and maybe avert segregation in full by allowing at least a handful of black players in so whoever gets their hands on these guys ends up dominating (in this universe we’re probably bitching about the Brooklyn Dodgers instead since Branch Rickey would still likely have been the first.)

But yes, make the rest of the American League less of a clusterfuck. Maybe even make Bill Veeck more competent and not just merely insane; even making him, say, Mark Cuban-level competent would help. Make the Senators less embarrassing. Make Ty Cobb just a little less of an asshole who’s always getting suspended. Have Connie Mack be less of a control freak - he doesn’t have to manage the damn team too. And the Indians...not sure about them, just maybe have their core guys stick around better; I don’t know. Even if half the AL is decent instead of “fuck it, let the Yankees handle it,” maybe they instead of the Dodgers and Giants hit the West Coast sooner.

Let’s say Harry Frazee doesn’t buy the Red Sox and the team holds onto Ruth. Then let’s say the White Sox avoid the scandal and win the 1919 Series. The Dodgers get their mitts on the best black players and the Giants compete with them in an arms race - the Yankees keep up but because they have an arms race of their own with Boston and Chicago. And then the Senators get a boost from being in DC where Congress adores them. That’s half the AL, so the two teams that don’t have cities to themselves are the Browns and A’s - with the Dodgers and Giants not going anywhere, say hello to the Los Angeles Browns, rebranded the Stars, and the San Francisco Athletics.
 
One option would be having the Yankees never build the original Yankee stadium, they only won a title after the park was built. If they remained a secondary tenant in the Polo Grounds, who knows what could have happened.
 
Colonel Rupert and Cap Hutson don't buy the team. They were able to add an influx of money that allowed the team to acquire top level executive talent (Miller Huggins and Ed Barrow) and also buy some of the best players in baseball (Babe Ruth). That raises the overall reputation and wealth that leads to the team becoming a powerhouse in the 20s and 30s, making them the most attractive destination for young players in the decades to come, allowing them to recruit the top talent. This was before the draft. It also raised the monetary value of the team to the highest in baseball, meaning only the wealthiest of owners could afford to buy the team in the future. So when Free Agency comes shortly after the draft is abolished (which is interesting as the years between the draft and free agency are some of the worst in Yankee history), the Yankees are the most attractive destination based off of money and reputation.
 
I've got a timeline in the plans, it's only up to the '50s - but some of you have guessed right. Maybe after I get back I'll start posting it; there's actually an earlier POD that causes the team to, shall we say, have a bad reputation. That of a spoiled peach, in fact. (Hint hint.)

I think we can start with Mickey Mantle going elsewhere and Babe Ruth staying with the Red Sox. Not a big baseball fan, so that's basically the extent of my knowledge.

But a very good one! That '47-'64 stretch was just awful for baseball.


Yawkey isn't a racist sob and signs Hank Aaron and Willie Mays to the Red Sox.
He had first chance to sign both of them and didn't because they were black. That's why they took his name off the street outside Fenway Park.

I didn't know about Aaron but Mays I did. Let's just say events cause the Quinns to stay with Boston's Red Sox and Joe Cronin to go with the Braves - becasue Babe Ruth isn't available so *they* buy him from Griffith. John Quinn influences him in his early days as an owner, not Joe Cronin and Eddie Collins.

One option would be having the Yankees never build the original Yankee stadium, they only won a title after the park was built. If they remained a secondary tenant in the Polo Grounds, who knows what could have happened.

Or what if...no, that would be telling. But you're pretty hot.

Colonel Rupert and Cap Hutson don't buy the team. They were able to add an influx of money that allowed the team to acquire top level executive talent (Miller Huggins and Ed Barrow) and also buy some of the best players in baseball (Babe Ruth). That raises the overall reputation and wealth that leads to the team becoming a powerhouse in the 20s and 30s, making them the most attractive destination for young players in the decades to come, allowing them to recruit the top talent. This was before the draft. It also raised the monetary value of the team to the highest in baseball, meaning only the wealthiest of owners could afford to buy the team in the future. So when Free Agency comes shortly after the draft is abolished (which is interesting as the years between the draft and free agency are some of the worst in Yankee history), the Yankees are the most attractive destination based off of money and reputation.

You are also ont he right track.

Maybe I better post now, I just saws this thread but I've had this in the thought stage and planing for over a year. I'll post what I have as a TLIAD and then I'll be leaving TGhursday so you'll hve to wait for any more, but it's a good stopping point.
 
You can also have Steinbrenner never get caught paying for dirt on Dave Winfield, which got him banned from day to day management of the Yankees from 1985ish to 1994. During that time, they made a ton of good draft picks, cultivated their farm system, but still had Yankee resources. Even when he got back, he was way more deferential to the baseball operations side of the building, which kept the core-4 intact in the farm system and led to the late 1990s dynasty.
 
I think Enigma and Creighton are on to something...don't build jekyllhyde stadium and make Steinbrenner stick to robbing widows and orphans and, viola, less dominant and less persistent Yankees.
 
The Yankee domination of the AL doesn't really start until after the Ruth trade prior to the 1920 season. Between that time and the start of the AL, there were runs of success by Boston, Detroit, and Philadelphia. The White Sox were in the midst of a run and had the Black Sox scandal never been exposed or simply never happened, they would have a good run of years ahead. Without the consistent success of the Yankees powered by Ruth, you would certainly see Boston more successful as they would still have one of the top hitters and pitchers in the sport on their team. Both Cleveland and the St. Louis Browns were fielding strong teams early in the decade. The A's spent most of the decade rebuilding and were again near the top by the late 20's.
 
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