AHC: The US Joins the Napoleonic Wars against France 1803

Exactly what it says on the tin. Obviously, in OTL, the US ended up "joining" the war against Britain in 1812. With a PoD after the Louisiana Purchase (1803), have the US declare war on France by 1812 at the latest.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Exactly what it says on the tin. Obviously, in OTL, the US ended up "joining" the war against Britain in 1812. With a PoD after the Louisiana Purchase (1803), have the US declare war on France by 1812 at the latest.
Is the Haitian rebellion exploitable?

Hm, it ended early 1804... bit late to have the French decide to let the Haitians go and for that to result in American involvement. And that gets the French safely east of any possible flashpoint.

The main obstacle here is the anti-British animus in America (and vice versa) - the revolution wasn't very long ago, while the anti-Napoleonic effort was pretty much a British-marshalled thing all the way through. They paid for it, they blockaded every port they could find and sunk every French ship they saw, and in short joining with the anti-Napoleonic effort means aiding a British enterprise.

...what about if the Spaniards kick something off in 1806 for some reason, back when Napoleon was allied to the Spaniards? That might do it. Sort of a super-early Spanish-American War.
 
A grab for Haiti would be an interesting possibility, although I can't see neither the Spanish or the British letting such a move pass easily. I can more easily envision an American attack against French holdings as a deal with the English than an actual involovment on the continent - I fail to see what the Americans would get out of having boots on the ground in Europe.
 
A grab for Haiti would be an interesting possibility, although I can't see neither the Spanish or the British letting such a move pass easily. I can more easily envision an American attack against French holdings as a deal with the English than an actual involovment on the continent - I fail to see what the Americans would get out of having boots on the ground in Europe.

Yeah, there's no way the US is landing troops in Europe at this stage. I was thinking that it would be more like a British co-belligerent,fighting only in North America. (Raiding French and Spanish ships in North America, invading Florida, maybe a disastrous incursion into Texas).
 
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it would be easy to get America on the other side of the war. IIRC they were having shipping troubles with both Britain and France. France quit harassing American ships first so it was war with Britain, have the British leave our shipping alone and France continue the harassment.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Haiti was recognized (by some, at least) as a sister republic

Haiti was recognized (by some, at least) as a sister republic, and these werre the days when such still meant something...plus the results of the French invasion would seem to be a pretty clear warning of why it would be a bad idea generally.

It is worth remembering that the US came within a two votes of declaring war on France shortly before the 1812-15 war broke out; see Napoleon's troublesome Americans: Franco-American relations, 1804-1815 by Peter Hill.

So it is not far-fectched, at all. Obviously, the POD is way too late for the Quasi-war to expand, but that is an example of the issues in play; if the war includes Spain, than Florida is an obvious target.

New Spain (ie Mexico) is pretty close to empty north of the Rio Grande and the eventual US-Mexican border, so a federal government-sponsored movement into Texas and points west is possible, certainly. During the quasi-war, the US took the initial steps toward mobilizing a provisional army (to back up the regulars) of 10,000+, so Florida and then Texas is within the realm of the possible. Jackson took Florida with far less in 1819.

Depending on when in the 1803-1812 the break occurs, the US could certainly provide assistance to the British in terms of whatever Western Hemisphere holdings are still under the French flag, and in aiding the independence movements in Spanish America. An expeditionary force in Europe is unlikely, but the attachment of a small naval squadron to the British forces in the Channel or the Med is not out of the question, and US observers and volunteers with the British forces in Spain or the Low Countries is certainly a possibility.

Along with the possibility of an "earlier" US annexation of Florida, Texas, and/or points West, and the impact on the sectional crisis in the US, other interesting ripples are earlier independence for various parts of Spanish America and, of course, the impact of a successful alliance between the US and UK. That gets misty very fast, but the future of British North America and the potential of even better economic and diplomatic relations between the US and UK in the remainder of the Nineteenth Century than what transpired historically.

Very interesting potential departure point.

Best,
 
it would be easy to get America on the other side of the war. IIRC they were having shipping troubles with both Britain and France. France quit harassing American ships first so it was war with Britain, have the British leave our shipping alone and France continue the harassment.

It's a bit more complicated than that. The POD has to be no earlier than 1803. That means Jefferson's in charge, and his is the era's biggest Francophile. Even if he has a bizarre shrubbery-related accident or something, that leaves George Clinton in charge, who isn't going to do anything Jefferson wouldn't have done, and who will not run for president in 1804. He'll leave that to Madison, who was not inclined to ally with Britain against France IOTL. With Louisiana already puchased, there's no real reason to declare war on France. If anything, Madison's OTL actions show his desire to annex Canada (he thought it would be "a matter of marching" in 1812).

At most, the USA will be slightly more hostile towards France, and slightly more friendly towards Britain. As in: they'll promise Britain to stop trade with France, on the condition that Britain allows US merchants to go unmolested (which includes putting a halt to the practice of impressing US sailors into the Royal Navy).

An actual shooting war against France would only be possible with a Federalist in office, and that's really unlikely with an 1803 POD.

Long shot possibility: Jefferson dies in 1803, Clinton becomes president for the last year of Jefferson's term, Madison (preparing for the election of 1804) speaks out against alliance with Britain and in favor of friendly relations with France... and then a dumb incident with a French warship sees on or more US vessels attacked. (Bonus points if someone high profile dies.) Result: a massive wave of anti-French and pro-British sentiments, Clinton looks incompetent, Madison looks like an unpatriotic Francophile, and Pinckney wins the 1804 elections. Tensions with France continue to rise, Britain is suddenly very friendly, Spain becomes a French puppet as IOTL... and Pinckney uses that as an excuse to declare war on France and Spain in an attempt to grab Florida.

But that's all really unlikely.
 
Have some random nutjob adventurer from the Southern States lead a party in an attempt to annex Haiti and stop the slaves freeing themselves. At some point, the chap and his followers get gunned down by the French. Possibly there's some form atrocity involved (have them shot after being captured or something). Napoleon makes a diplomatic balls-up and a war kicks off.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Any southerner doing so would be in alliance with

Have some random nutjob adventurer from the Southern States lead a party in an attempt to annex Haiti and stop the slaves freeing themselves. At some point, the chap and his followers get gunned down by the French. Possibly there's some form atrocity involved (have them shot after being captured or something). Napoleon makes a diplomatic balls-up and a war kicks off.

Any southerner doing so would be in alliance with the French in 1803, which is when they withdrew; after that, the French would not care.

So that doesn't really track, in 1803 or afterwards.

Best,
 
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