AHC: The U.S. as a pariah regime

samcster94

Banned
The United States has to be a hated regime. It can do something like keep and expand slavery (or even re-legalize slavery in the North), fall to a brutal military regime, explicitly refuse to integrate. In a nutshell, it has to be racist, theocratic, or under some horrible right wing dictatorship, but you can play your cards as long as you don't make the U.S. communist. Any POD allowed.

No OTL comments(this U.S. is almost universally hated in TTL)
 
The easiest way to get what you want is to go uber racist.
It is really hard to get America to become a theocracy (and to a lesser degree a dictatorship in general) without a drastically different constitution.
 
Easiest way is that USA never abolish slavery/Jim Crow laws. You can too make USA bit more racist and very xenophobic.
 
Easiest way is that USA never abolish slavery/Jim Crow laws. You can too make USA bit more racist and very xenophobic.

How would that make USA a pariah? Slavery would in today's world, thankfully. I can see this would make the British hate them. I think the Hapsburgs were ambivalent. They didn't embrace slavery (no colonies), but at the same time I don't think they cared what happened on the other side of The Pond. And plenty of African nations practiced slavery. The British and Americans didn't do much slaving (capturing a free man and make him a slave), they purchased them from African slavers.
 
Since this is pre-1900, perhaps a more successful and more unpleasant Concert of Europe that hates liberalism, republicanism, the separation of Church and State, etc.?
 
Since this is pre-1900, perhaps a more successful and more unpleasant Concert of Europe that hates liberalism, republicanism, the separation of Church and State, etc.?
That might have the opposite effect, with America viewing itself as the only bastion of liberty in the world.
 
The United States has to be a hated regime. It can do something like keep and expand slavery (or even re-legalize slavery in the North), fall to a brutal military regime, explicitly refuse to integrate. In a nutshell, it has to be racist, theocratic, or under some horrible right wing dictatorship, but you can play your cards as long as you don't make the U.S. communist. Any POD allowed.

No OTL comments(this U.S. is almost universally hated in TTL)
Radical Holy Alliance chose to condem them and blame them for being a idol for rebellions in South America and Europe and liberal values. The Holy Alliance and The Pope himself joins the Alliance and says that Catholics shouldn't be loyal. Holy Alliance and its expanded allies agree upon the thought, that the States will be an economic and military superpower in the future due to its expansion westward. They agree to take common measures and spread propaganda.Maybe even war.
 
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The United States has to be a hated regime. It can do something like keep and expand slavery (or even re-legalize slavery in the North), fall to a brutal military regime, explicitly refuse to integrate. In a nutshell, it has to be racist, theocratic, or under some horrible right wing dictatorship, but you can play your cards as long as you don't make the U.S. communist. Any POD allowed.

No OTL comments(this U.S. is almost universally hated in TTL)

Jared's DoD timeline-for all the plausibility issues it had-came really close to this; and @Napoleon53 's What Madness Is This?, perhaps even more so. And if plausibility doesn't concern you, well, there you go, as either of these two basically have what you're looking for.

Otherwise, though, if plausibility is a concern, then it's rather harder to do, believably that is. In fact, I think you might have better luck with a *British America in which either the Revolution failed or simply never came to be.
 
America could be a political pariah if slavery wasn't abolished or jim crow continued and or was more influential. combine that with imperialist behavior and a more popular soviet union. it wont lessen the power that the united states wields, but it would lessen the number of allies that it has for staging.

make it end of WW II, minorities return from war, the 50's go on .. MLK and X and others are killed, JFK killed, civil rights gets the hard hand. America turns more and more authoritarian to control its minority populations in response. this will sap the economy and of which one would expect a much more xenophobic America with much tighter boarder and immigration policies.

just for giggles and I know its unknowable, but have AIDS start during or following the war. infecting poorer regions and groups, this would also keep the old school white fear at high level.
 
Radical Holy Alliance chose to condem them and blame them for being a idol for rebellions in South America and Europe and liberal values. The Holy Alliance and allThe Pope himself joins the Alliance and says that Catholics shouldn't be loyal. Holy Alliance and its wxpanded allies agree upon the thought, that the States will be an economic and military superpower in the duture sue to its expansion westward. They agree to take common measures and spread propaganda.

If this is the case, why wouldn't they declare war on the US? They should be able to smash the American navy- and Britain won't be too fond of the Americans having just fought a war with them.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Dathi's Canadawank had something like this - the War of 1812 goes much worse for the US and basically New England splits off - leading to the US being largely based on the South, so slave-owning - and the US keeps basically attacking everyone in sight to try and fulfil Manifest Destiny.
 
If this is the case, why wouldn't they declare war on the US? They should be able to smash the American navy- and Britain won't be too fond of the Americans having just fought a war with them.

Britain was the real guarantor of the Monroe Doctrine because they wanted free trade with Latin America. Plus many Concert of Europe/Holy Alliance nations would be Catholic, something the British Establishment of the time isn't going to like, and a Holy Alliance that's more radical and zealous might look too much like "one power dominating Europe" to their taste.

(So TL;DR, Britain might not support such a move or might even oppose it, for their own reasons.)

Plus the Holy Alliance might think a trans-Atlantic war beyond their capabilities or fear it could provoke uprisings if it goes too long.
 

Deleted member 67076

How about a military coup against a president early on, ruining the tradition of stability and leading to a Mexico like series of crisis until a military dictator that creates a brutal oligarchy that's increasingly disliked by the rest of the world?
 
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