AHC: The British Empire, not the USA, as the Western superpower in the Cold War

[InvaderX]

Is it possible, with a PoD ideally after 1922 (the formation of the Soviet Union, though it can be as early as 1917 if the SU still eventually forms, or some similarly recognizable alternative), for the British Empire to remain the premier superpower of the Western world, and take the place of the United States as it's representative in the Cold War against the Soviet Union? Obviously this is quite a difficult scenario especially without avoiding the first world war - perhaps to make things slightly easier, it's the remaining Entente powers that together form a combined bloc strong enough to challenge the Soviets as the Americans did (though they do not necessarily need to win). Also feel free to screw America as much as necessary, though a tripolar world would certainly be interesting.

I'm personally not sure how this could be accomplished with a PoD after WW1 (obviously you need to hold the Empire together, but that on its own is incredibly difficult), but that's why I'm posting this. Maybe someone here with better knowledge of the period and more creativity could come up with something.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

The only way the United States doesn't become the main western power is if it stays strictly isolationist.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

USA doesn't actually form, so the British empire is the superpower by default?

 

[sarahz]

The only way the United States doesn't become the main western power is if it stays strictly isolationist.

If the POD is slightly earlier and there is either not a WW1 or the US does not take part in it due to there. being no battle of the Atlantic/submarine warfare then its achieveable post 1922 America First has to secure the US sits out the war and its aftermath or Japan attacks the Soviet Union and there is no Pacific War. If the Soviets are weakened but still beat Japan and Germany with UK/ Empire/ Free French Forces etc eventually you could get a world where a relatively weak SU faces a weaker Superpower with an economically strong but politically weak (with few to no real friends US) Allied final victory might have had to wait until 1948 or so as it would take longer for the UK and Canada to develop nuclear weapons without the US but it would be an Imperial weapon not beholden to the US, which might well not have one of its own. until sometime later. .

 

[Post]

In @pdf27 's The Blunted Sickle, it looks like that after WW2 the Entente will remain a major power. His POD is as late as early 1940.

So if you avoid the fall of France in 1940, like he did, or find another way to make Fall Gelb fail, the Germans won't win quickly and the Entente has a really good shot to win WW2 in 1941/42. This means the UK and France will remain major powers. If they stick together, together they're a superpower. In Europe you have a western bloc, dominated by the UK and France, opposing USSR, which won't have satellite states.

In this scenario it's likely a European alliance will be formed with the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Czechoslovakia and Poland. They've been on the same side, fighting the Germans, several of them for the 2nd time in a generation and it's likely they'll stick together. Finland probably wants to join too. Maybe Sweden won't stay neutral ITTL (if I'm correct in The Blunted Sickle a union/alliance between Sweden and Finland was already formed). I think it's unlikely the USA would join this alliance, they have little reason to.

The Balkan and fascist states in southern Europe might be interested in joining too, or maybe they form their own alliance. The latter would mean three large alliances/blocs in Europe.

The UK and France are likely to develop nukes in the late 40s/early 50s. Maybe they'll even be the first to do so.

 

[Derwitt]

In @pdf27 's The Blunted Sickle, it looks like that after WW2 the Entente will remain a major power. His POD is as late as early 1940.

So if you avoid the fall of France in 1940, like he did, or find another way to make Fall Gelb fail, the Germans won't win quickly and the Entente has a really good shot to win WW2 in 1941/42. This means the UK and France will remain major powers. If they stick together, together they're a superpower. In Europe you have a western bloc, dominated by the UK and France, opposing USSR, which won't have satellite states.

In this scenario it's likely a European alliance will be formed with the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Czechoslovakia and Poland. They've been on the same side, fighting the Germans, several of them for the 2nd time in a generation and it's likely they'll stick together. Finland probably wants to join too. Maybe Sweden won't stay neutral ITTL (if I'm correct in The Blunted Sickle a union/alliance between Sweden and Finland was already formed). I think it's unlikely the USA would join this alliance, they have little reason to.

The Balkan and fascist states in southern Europe might be interested in joining too, or maybe they form their own alliance. The latter would mean three large alliances/blocs in Europe.

The UK and France are likely to develop nukes in the late 40s/early 50s. Maybe they'll even be the first to do so.

There‘s also the often discussed 1940 Franco-British Union POD. A Franco-British super state post ww2 could supplant the USA. Another option is for the Great Depression to cause the Balkanisation of the USA possibly even a second Civil War (I recall there was a pretty good TL about this on here a few years back).

My personal favourite is the British economists who did a lot of the foundation work on National Current Accounts and inflation in the 1920’s get there a bit earlier and keep it to themselves (and the British Treasury). Post WW1 the Government puts together some basic rules about the return to the Gold Standard including having stable inflation. Then they cook the books and and print enough money to increase inflation to 5%+. This means the UK retains fiat currency and the national debt over is eroded/reduced. The bonus is that they can spend the “New” printed money on modernising industrial and transportation infrastructure while doing enough to convince the electorate that they are trying to build “A land fit for hero’s). When the Great Depression hits the British rapidly devalue the Pound further (by printing more money which is spent on a full Keynesian response). This allows the UK to rapidly recover and to improve its position to the USA. A more fiscally powerful UK rearms earlier and acts as a genuine deterrent to Nazi Germany. When Hitler insists on attacking Czechs the German Generals loose their nerve and embark on some robust regime change. When Stalin starts to flex his military muscles at the end of the 30’s, Britain becomes the leader of the European response creating a right leaning alliance of Western Europeand countries to oppose the USSR.

 

[JohnBull]

Up to the early 1940's, it was Britain not the US that acted as world's leader/world's police. London was still the centre of world's financial system and the Royal Navy the largest navy.

If you want a PoD around 1922, here what you must work with:

--- Make Britain and the four Dominions develop a political framework that will eventually make them into a Federation in some point of the future. It needs a starter though;

--- No Nazi Germany. Weimar Germany keeps doing their own thing while Soviet Union keeps growing stronger and more assertive on Eastern Europe, Middle East, East Asia as time goes by;

--- Without a WWII, there's no much pressure for the US get out of isolationism and built up their military.

In such scenario, it would be this "British Federation" (Britain plus Dominions) the main Soviet Union antagonizer. Both powers would be struggling everywhere to keep their spheres of influence intact.

Instead of Cold War, it would be the Great Game II. I believe it's doable.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

The British introduce universal suffrage throughout the Empire and later Commonwealth

None of this white mans burden bullshit - Pax Imperator for all (or something like that)

Not sure how we can get to this lofty goal - especially with India ultimately having the biggest say in any equal federation - unless it leaves?

As well as the racial issues of the day - which would have to be overcome

Anyway Britain develops a roadmap for independence based on all people in this commonwealth having inalienable rights - such as education, law, equal rights of the individual etc regardless of 'accident of birth'

Whatever happens it could not be continued as an empire as OTL in order to the 'Hyperpower of the West' during the Cold war

 

[Simreeve]

Up to the early 1940's, it was Britain not the US that acted as world's leader/world's police. London was still the centre of world's financial system and the Royal Navy the largest navy.

If you want a PoD around 1922, here what you must work with:

--- Make Britain and the four Dominions develop a political framework that will eventually make them into a Federation in some point of the future. It needs a starter though;

Expanding organisation up from the 'Imperial Preference' trading bloc of the Depression era.

H'mm, did you know that some American politicians reportedly considered applying for a sort of Commonwealth membership back then in order to benefit from being part of that bloc?

 

[Montgomerie Ward]

Have France and the United Kingdom unite into the Franco-British Union in 1940, and make the union become permanent after the war. This strengthens the UK's position and brings the French solidly on-board against the Soviets.

A Robert A. Taft presidency between 1949-1957 focuses on domestic issues instead of international.