AHC: The Aloha Province

Interesting discussion folks. Upon reading it, I've come to a few conclusions regarding this challenge:

1. Hawaii becoming a province of Canada (as we know it OTL) is as likely to occur as the chances of Bermuda, the Bahamas or any British possession in the Caribbean becoming one (and yes, I know that the notion of Turks & Caicos joining the Dominion/Kingdom has been bandied about).

2. Hawaii becoming part of the British Empire might mean that "Oregon Country" and Alaska do as well. If this is the case, then we may see a Northwest North American dominion, including those domains + OTL Yukon, B.C., Alberta and the N.W.T. west of longitude 105-W. (I propose the name Borealia) come into existence in the late 1850s, one separate from TTL's Canada to the east.

3. Hawaii becoming part of this Dominion of Borealia is, however, as likely to occur as the chances of it becoming part of the Canada that in OTL sets her sons' (and daughters') hearts aglow w/true patriot love! (Please do not mistake my waxing poetic here w/sarcasm.)
 
1. Hawaii becoming a province of Canada (as we know it OTL) is as likely to occur as the chances of Bermuda, the Bahamas or any British possession in the Caribbean becoming one (and yes, I know that the notion of Turks & Caicos joining the Dominion/Kingdom has been bandied about).

2. Hawaii becoming part of the British Empire might mean that "Oregon Country" and Alaska do as well. If this is the case, then we may see a Northwest North American dominion, including those domains + OTL Yukon, B.C., Alberta and the N.W.T. west of longitude 105-W. (I propose the name Borealia) come into existence in the late 1850s, one separate from TTL's Canada to the east.

I think the Bahamas joining Canada is pretty reasonable... far more reasonable than Hawaii.

I like the idea of the separate dominions forming. If Borealia has all of the Oregon Territory, then I assume that there must of been of least one war with the United States. If that's the case, maybe Britain could put pressure on them both to join together for mutual defence. Maybe Borealia can appoint her own senators to Ottawa and a guaranteed percentage of parliamentary seats or something.
 
I think the Bahamas joining Canada is pretty reasonable... far more reasonable than Hawaii.
Why are the Bahamas any more reasonable? I know that there was vague talk about it in the early 1900s but considering that they're roughly 1,400 miles apart and culturally probably rather different the idea has always stuck me as somewhat rather odd.
 
Why are the Bahamas any more reasonable? I know that there was vague talk about it in the early 1900s but considering that they're roughly 1,400 miles apart and culturally probably rather different the idea has always stuck me as somewhat rather odd.

Canada has always had a passive (very passive) interest in the Atlantic, but its efforts in the Pacific have been negligible. And the fact that there was talk about it at all shows there was at least some interest in it.

Early 20th century Canada barely payed attention to the Pacific territory it had, let alone something in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
 
Canada for it's entire history has basically ignored the Pacific.

That's not COMPLETELY true you just need a reason for Canada to take a stronger interest in Hawaii and to want to keep it, maybe as coaling stop for CP steamships?

800px-Hudson_Bay_Company%2C_Honolulu%2C_by_Paul_Emmert.jpg
 
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That's not COMPLETELY true you just need a reason for Canada to take a stronger interest in Hawaii and to want to keep it, maybe as coaling stop for CP steamships?

800px-Hudson_Bay_Company%2C_Honolulu%2C_by_Paul_Emmert.jpg

That's fascinating! Thanks for posting that.

The HBC was always big on the west coast, if we can get a Canadian Oregon Territory maybe they get adventurous and take a bigger role in Hawaii in the mid 19th century.
 
Canada has always had a passive (very passive) interest in the Atlantic, but its efforts in the Pacific have been negligible. And the fact that there was talk about it at all shows there was at least some interest in it.

Early 20th century Canada barely paid attention to the Pacific territory it had, let alone something in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
There is however a bit of a difference between taking an interest in the Atlantic thanks to the the main weight of population, industry and finance being in the east of the country and from that it's main trading/shipping routes, and picking up a bunch of tropical islands 1,400 miles away just because.


That's not COMPLETELY true you just need a reason for Canada to take a stronger interest in Hawaii and to want to keep it, maybe as coaling stop for CP steamships?
Well when you talk about Canada wanting to keep it, isn't that a little problematic since at what point did they gain proper control over their affairs and foreign relations from the UK? There's also the problem that the British and the French had reached an agreement to both abstain from trying to claim the Hawaiian islands as a protectorate or colony. IIRC when a visiting British warship captain tried to claim the place he got reprimanded and the deal revoked as soon as his superiors heard about it. If Canada started trying to mess around with things and inadvertently break the agreement then they're liable to get told to knock that shit off. Although I suppose if the US was making noises it might be possible, still seems pretty unlikely to me though.
 
There is however a bit of a difference between taking an interest in the Atlantic thanks to the the main weight of population, industry and finance being in the east of the country and from that it's main trading/shipping routes, and picking up a bunch of tropical islands 1,400 miles away just because.

Psh, it was the late 19th/early 20th century. Just because we can is a perfectly valid reason.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think that if Canada were waltzing about looking for tropical islands to annex the Bahamas make a hell of a lot more sense than Hawaii (but still rather unlikely).
 
Off-the-cuff thinking:

-The Hawaiian monarchy gets uneasy with the influence of American business in the islands; has favourable views of Britain based on past conduct; invites a British presence.

-Becomes a self-governing protectorate on the level of Egypt or Iraq or such.

-Americans put up tariff and trade barriers, so the economy falters compared to OTL. Brits not terribly invested in the place, given sugar-producing colonies in the Caribbean.

-At some point (1930s?), the islands' economy gets so rough the Brits have to take over administration.

-Post-WW2, Newfoundland is not the only dominion that the Brits push to join Canada...
 
The Gunslinger said:
The HBC was always big on the west coast
My understanding has always been HBC was more oriented to the OTL Prairies & Northern Manitoba, less so the Ft Garry-Montreal route. Astor's North West Company was the major player in Oregon & on the Pacific Coast.

If there's a stronger Pacific whaling emphasis, this could change. It wouldn't be HBC, tho, nor IMO NWC.

If you can get at the Chinese silk trade, & before steam IDK how you do that, you might make the Silk Express trains more frequent & sooner. Otherwise, Vancouver/Victoria/Seattle doesn't look really attractive except for whaling. Not until the Frazer Gold Rush, anyhow. Could be you can bump that ahead, but IDK how much.
Simon said:
if the US was making noises it might be possible
IMO, you'd need it to be Russia, not the U.S.; the U.S. wasn't seen as a serious threat AFAIK. Indeed, if it's Russia, you've got the excuse to annex Alaska & Hawaii both, & give *Canada a major industry to boot.:cool: (Also a major encouragement to the Canadian shipbuilding industry, which would be good in later years.:cool:)
 
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There's also the problem that the British and the French had reached an agreement to both abstain from trying to claim the Hawaiian islands as a protectorate or colony.
And there's your reason for it becoming Canadian: when the ATL British government really wants to forestall a propsective American takeover of the islands it notices that that agreement only says that Britain itself won't claim them, and not also that Canada won't do so either... ;)
 
My understanding has always been HBC was more oriented to the OTL Prairies & Northern Manitoba, less so the Ft Garry-Montreal route. Astor's North West Company was the major player in Oregon & on the Pacific Coast.

If there's a stronger Pacific whaling emphasis, this could change. It wouldn't be HBC, tho, nor IMO NWC.

The HBC made most if profit from Rupert's Land (due to having a virtual monopoly on the place) but it had a lot of operations on the Pacific coast throughout the 19th century. The NWC merged with the HBC in 1821, so its impact was pretty negligible on 19th century Canada.

I know the NWC got in a spat with the HBC over the export of furs to China, but I don't know much about it other than its rather ignamonious end.
 

katchen

Banned
Federation gets delayed maybe a year or two. A Trans-Pacific Telegraph line gets laid to Australis. Hawaii becomes a protectorate. Fiji and Tonga are protectorates. A Greater Imperial Federation of Canada, Australia and the West Indies and the new Pacific Island territories including Solomon Islands and New Guinea, capitaled at Victoria BC is proposed and passed as a cost saving move by Parliament, which is in a mood to brook no opposition and holds the threat of sale to the United States over the Canadian Province's and West Indies's head to get them to acquiesce to the deal. A potential new Great Power is now cobbled together.
 
I think the way to do it is through some sort of Imperial Federation around the turn of the century.

Britain establishes a protectorate over Hawaii in the 1870's or 80's. Royal Navy base established at Pearl Harbour.

By 1900 calls for an Imperial Federation and Parliament become overwhelming. The trouble is that any sort of representation by population will result in terrible imbalances, and probably the colonies being more disadvantaged than before federation.

So they come up with a system of creating "balanced regions", basically like Imperial Circles in the old Holy Roman Empire. Each of these regions could be called a Dominion and be allocated an equal amount of representation in some sort of an Imperial Senate/House of Lords.

These balanced Dominions would be:
1. Great Britain and Ireland,
2. Africa (all British possessions in Africa, as well as Malta and Cyprus, with the centre of gravity in South Africa)
3. Australasia (Australia, New Zealand, all islands south of the Equator, Singapore, Malay States and Hong Kong)
4. India (The Raj including Ceylon, Burma and Indian Ocean Islands)
5. Canada and Islands (Canada, Bermuda, Newfoundland, Caribbean Islands and Hawaii).

After World War II the federation begins to break apart, but as the Canada and the Islands Dominion gains independence it retains its integrity - because everyone believes that while Hawaii and Quebec, or St. Lucia and Vancouver Island don't have much in common, alone they would be dominated by the United States.

So you end up with a Canada with 17 provinces and 6 territories:
Provinces:
Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador, Jamaica, Barbados, Windward Isles, Leeward Isles, Trinidad and Tobago, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia, Vancouver Island (just for fun) and Hawaii.
Territories:
Yukon, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, and Turks and Caicos

And in case you think a Canada including the West Indies is totally unimaginable have a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies_Federation#Relationship_with_Canada
So is Hawaii so far fetched?
 
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