AHC: Switzerland involved in a war (minus Nazis)

So how does Switzerland get involved in a war in the modern era? For this AHC, I'm going to count out Operation Tannenbaum or any other Nazi invasion of Switzerland. Italian-led and organised invasions of Switzerland still count, as long as the Germans don't initially support them.

So is there anyway to get Switzerland involved in a war? The best chance for that to happen aside from the aforementioned Operation Tannenbaum to me seems to be a communist-led invasion of Switzerland during a World War III scenario, which seems like Operation Tannenbaum with the "bad guys" changed. So are there any other chances for Switzerland to be involved in a war in the 20th century?
 
Communist invasion of Switzerland?

OTL Swiss defense spending remained high until after the Berlin Wall collapsed because Switzerland feared a communist invasion far more than they feared invasion by any NATO nation.
OTL neighbouring Austria was invaded by Russia and occupied for many years after WW2. Swiss heard plenty of horror stories from their Austrian neighbors. Austria was the only European nation that Russia withdrew from in the aftermath of WW2.

Lots of neighbouring countries (France, Italy, Austria, Lichtenstein, Germany, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, etc.) have historical claims on various Swiss cantons, but France was the last to invade (early 19th century) and France only invaded the French-speaking cantons bodering France. Once they got around the Jura mountain range, French soldiers had an easy hike up that long, broad valley linking Basel to Geneva.

The rest of Switzerland is mostly steep, narrow river vallies with multiple, easily-defended, choke-points.

The start of the Industrial Revolution was the last POD for invading Switzerland. As soon as railroads starting transporting goods across Switzerland (e.g. Italy to Germany) the rails became more important than land or political egos.
 
During WW1, a number of Austrian-Italian engagements (e.g. Ortlerfront) took place right on the Swiss border. Both combatants considered violating Swiss territory to gain tactical advantage, though ultimately none did.
Between the wars, Italy has built several heavy-duty roads approaching both the Swiss and the Austrian borders, with a clear intent to at least threaten Switzerland with invasion from that side, over the high passes and the Swiss in turn built artillery fortifications which would be able to cover said roads. This was considered a significantly more credible threat than the supposed Operation Tannenbaum 10 years later.
During WW2, USAAF has (lightly) bombed Basel and Schaffhausen - supposedly as mistakes, though the opinions were that it was a warning against supplying Nazis. On the other hand, Swiss air forces downed a number of both German and American aircraft. It would not be surprising if these aerial engagements could get out of hand and lead to a DOW on Switzerland from either side.
 
During WW1, a number of Austrian-Italian engagements (e.g. Ortlerfront) took place right on the Swiss border. Both combatants considered violating Swiss territory to gain tactical advantage, though ultimately none did.
Between the wars, Italy has built several heavy-duty roads approaching both the Swiss and the Austrian borders, with a clear intent to at least threaten Switzerland with invasion from that side, over the high passes and the Swiss in turn built artillery fortifications which would be able to cover said roads. This was considered a significantly more credible threat than the supposed Operation Tannenbaum 10 years later.
During WW2, USAAF has (lightly) bombed Basel and Schaffhausen - supposedly as mistakes, though the opinions were that it was a warning against supplying Nazis. On the other hand, Swiss air forces downed a number of both German and American aircraft. It would not be surprising if these aerial engagements could get out of hand and lead to a DOW on Switzerland from either side.

So "easiest" might be to have the violations of Swiss airspace escalate sometime in 1944, Swiss government gets the point and starts acting hostile to the Nazis, Hitler in his genius decides to retaliate with something, and Switzerland effectively joins the Allies and assists in the war effort?

Or likewise during WWI, Italy or Austria-Hungary get a bit carried away, do something extreme, and Switzerland commits to a side?
 
WW1 offers some possibilities.
There was the „Plan H“ (H = Helvétie) from the French army in 1915.
The idea of this plan, is that the French army could go around the
German front lines by invading northern Switzerland.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz_im_Ersten_Weltkrieg#Bedrohungslage_und_Verteidigungsdispositiv
http://www.etas-it.ch/fortifikation-hauenstein/g_geschichte.php
(I found it only in German)

plan_h.jpg
 
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WW1 offers some possibilities.
There was the „Plan H“ (H = Helvétie) from the French army in 1915.
The idea of this plan, is that the French army could go around the
German front lines by invading northern Switzerland.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz_im_Ersten_Weltkrieg#Bedrohungslage_und_Verteidigungsdispositiv
http://www.etas-it.ch/fortifikation-hauenstein/g_geschichte.php
(I found it only in German)

plan_h.jpg

That doesn't seem like it would end well for France. What were the actual odds of them doing that, and what might make them actually execute Plan H?
 
I don't know enough about Switzerland in WW1, or military plans in general to answer your questions.
I recently found the following book:
Die Schweizer Armee im Ersten Weltkrieg : Bedrohung, Landesverteidigung und Landesbefestigung / Hans Rudolf Fuhrer; in the university library.
According to Fuhrer plan H is unlikely but possible.
For further literature I found the following list:
http://www.switzerland1914-1918.net/blog/bibliography-on-switzerland-and-the-first-world-war
 
OTL neighbouring Austria was invaded by Russia and occupied for many years after WW2.
Technically Austria was same long time occupied by western allies. Austrians got pretty good deal actually.

Austria was the only European nation that Russia withdrew from in the aftermath of WW2.
That's actually not true. Soviet forces withdrew from Austria in 1955.
By the end of 1945 however Soviet troops were withdrawn from Czechoslovakia!
 
Could a terrorist attack in Switzerland get them involved in anything going on in the middle East?

....................................................................................

That question is too close to the truth for comfort!
Yikes!
Last time I visited Switzerland, I saw dozens of young (20-year-old) Africans hanging out around the train station. They did not assimilate to Swiss culture by speaking any of the local languages: French, German, Italian or English. The guys were mostly jiving and trading fancy hand-shakes (drug-dealing?). Meanwhile, young African women strutted around in tight skirts (prostitution?).

My host explained that the Africans were refugees - granted asylum, but not work visas.

Al-Quieda, Al Shebab, AQAM, etc. find that sort of un-employed, idle, frustrated youth easy to recruit via the internet. One or two bombs exploded on Swiss soil could force the Swiss Army to send troops to fight Muslim extremists in North Africa.
Though I suspect that Swiss financial regulators are already quietly limiting currency transfers through Swiss banks, as I expect that Swiss police are already quietly limiting the number of violent extremists visiting Switzerland.
 
Could a terrorist attack in Switzerland get them involved in anything going on in the middle East?

Switzerland practises "armed neutrality". Which means in theory, that we are armed to the teeth for defense, but will never cross the border to attack someone.
We might get involved with a peacekeeping force like the KFOR or UN observers, but Switzerland is prohibited by the constitution from aggressive warfare. So you will NOT see any swiss fighters bomb ISIS/AQ/...
The abolute maximum might be a training mission/advisory role by the AADet10, but if that would get out, it would cause a shitstorm of EPIC proportions.


Last time I visited Switzerland, I saw dozens of young (20-year-old) Africans hanging out around the train station. They did not assimilate to Swiss culture by speaking any of the local languages: French, German, Italian or English. The guys were mostly jiving and trading fancy hand-shakes (drug-dealing?). Meanwhile, young African women strutted around in tight skirts (prostitution?).

My host explained that the Africans were refugees - granted asylum, but not work visas.

Yes, those youths will most likely be refugees. Asylumseekers in Switzerland are prohibited from working until their status has been cleared. Thus they end up loitering in their free time at the train station or other public places, and usually they still don't speak any local language.
If they are granted Asylum, they can work, but usually have to learn a new trade, because e.g. a baker from Eritrea will not be able to practice his craft due to regulations and certifications.

Al-Quieda, Al Shebab, AQAM, etc. find that sort of un-employed, idle, frustrated youth easy to recruit via the internet. One or two bombs exploded on Swiss soil could force the Swiss Army to send troops to fight Muslim extremists in North Africa.

We do have extremists in Switzerland, just recently there was a trial in Bellinzona of IS-Supporters. In addition there are some fanatics that have joined ISIS in Syria.
Switzerland is less threatened than other european countries, due to the fact that we are not dropping any bombs in the middle east. In addition they will confuse Switzerland most likely with Denmark and bomb Copenhagen.:)
The swiss armed forces will not get involved in an active combat role in ANY county on earth. It is simply unthinkable and very illegal. From the start of the KFOR-Mission until '02 swiss soldiers were mostly unarmed. It took a vote by the people to approve weapons for self defense...

Though I suspect that Swiss financial regulators are already quietly limiting currency transfers through Swiss banks, as I expect that Swiss police are already quietly limiting the number of violent extremists visiting Switzerland.
Swiss Banks..... the less said the better. They are still involved with illegal money, but I hope not to the extent of a few decades ago. I think the regulations are already in place for the most part, but the banks are still screwing around...
 
To Digress

There was a story in a SciFi magazine, 1980s I recall, where the narrator discovers the Swiss have a secret army thats been active since the early 19th Century covertly invading other nations. These agent/soldiers are infiltrated into all levels of potiential hostile nations and are busy ensuring plans are never made to attack Switzerland & if made never executed.
 

ben0628

Banned
Switzerland practises "armed neutrality". Which means in theory, that we are armed to the teeth for defense, but will never cross the border to attack someone.
We might get involved with a peacekeeping force like the KFOR or UN observers, but Switzerland is prohibited by the constitution from aggressive warfare. So you will NOT see any swiss fighters bomb ISIS/AQ/...
The abolute maximum might be a training mission/advisory role by the AADet10, but if that would get out, it would cause a shitstorm of EPIC proportions.




Yes, those youths will most likely be refugees. Asylumseekers in Switzerland are prohibited from working until their status has been cleared. Thus they end up loitering in their free time at the train station or other public places, and usually they still don't speak any local language.
If they are granted Asylum, they can work, but usually have to learn a new trade, because e.g. a baker from Eritrea will not be able to practice his craft due to regulations and certifications.



We do have extremists in Switzerland, just recently there was a trial in Bellinzona of IS-Supporters. In addition there are some fanatics that have joined ISIS in Syria.
Switzerland is less threatened than other european countries, due to the fact that we are not dropping any bombs in the middle east. In addition they will confuse Switzerland most likely with Denmark and bomb Copenhagen.:)
The swiss armed forces will not get involved in an active combat role in ANY county on earth. It is simply unthinkable and very illegal. From the start of the KFOR-Mission until '02 swiss soldiers were mostly unarmed. It took a vote by the people to approve weapons for self defense...

What if the UN as a whole forms a coalition force and takes an more aggressive stance on terrorism (doubt if possible). But if you see a UN army actively fighting ISIS and other terrorists, would Switzerland join in.

Just to add, I don't mean a peacekeeping mission but more along the lines of a UN force actively fighting (similar to that of the Korean war).

Is Swiss foreign policy completely isolationist or is it more along the lines on noninterventionalism like Argentina's current official foreign policy for example?
 
Swiss mercenaries

There was a story in a SciFi magazine, 1980s I recall, where the narrator discovers the Swiss have a secret army thats been active since the early 19th Century covertly invading other nations. These agent/soldiers are infiltrated into all levels of potiential hostile nations and are busy ensuring plans are never made to attack Switzerland & if made never executed.

............................................................................

Hah!
Hah!
Please stop quoting reality on a science fiction forum.
Back during the ..... Switzerland was a poor country. Their major export was young men. Many of these unemployed young men moved to other European countries and became mercenaries, free-lancers, Lanskneckts, etc. Napolean hired a few Swiss soldiers at the turn of the 19th century.

Even today, the Vatican is guarded by Swiss mercenaries. Perhaps Swiss Guards listen to conversations about .... ".... Poland is ripe for the fall of communism .... but we should wait a while longer in Chile .....l"
 
What if the UN as a whole forms a coalition force and takes an more aggressive stance on terrorism (doubt if possible). But if you see a UN army actively fighting ISIS and other terrorists, would Switzerland join in.

Just to add, I don't mean a peacekeeping mission but more along the lines of a UN force actively fighting (similar to that of the Korean war).

Is Swiss foreign policy completely isolationist or is it more along the lines on noninterventionalism like Argentina's current official foreign policy for example?

Swiss neutrality is an official principle. It has been since the establishment of the current nation in 1848. Swiss troops are prohibited by law from active participation in any war/conflict, unless it basically happens on swiss soil.
So even if the UN starts to fight terrorists actively, Switzerland would not participate. If the UN wanted to enforce participation from Switzerland, Switzerland would quit the UN. So the scenario is very, very, very unlikely. It would require a truly gargantuan shift in foreign policy, public opinion, legislative work and a public vote to accomplish that. However, Switzerland would help back sanctions like the ones against Iran and North Korea.

Neutrality is an integral part of the swiss identity and has been for the better part of 200 years. Switzerland is not isolationist, it is acitve as a mediator and a member of the UN and the OSZE.
e.g. Switzerland was for a long time the diplomatic representation for the USA in Iran and hosted the meetings for the Iran nuclear deal. Swiss diplomats were also involved with the negotiations in the ukrainian conflict.

I think Switzerland is more active than Argentina, especially on diplomatic channels.

tl,dr: Not just no, but HELL NO!
 
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