AHC: Surviving Vermont Republic

I put this in the Pre-1900 thread because the POD will need to be in its early days obviously. So the basic idea is a Vermont Republic, that survives in a completely independent manner into the modern day.
 
You'd need the USA to never unite-since the point of the Vermont republic was to join the Union. Remember their motto was "the fourteenth star" in Latin. Possibly, a proper USA screw could result in a Vermont as a puppet state of the British Empire and later Canada
 
Why wouldn't they just join Canada once the anti-British spirit fades? They could cut a deal with the British as easy as they could the US, even if it would piss off the United States.
 
Only way is that constitution convention fails on 1788. But even then there is high odds that New England becomes unified nation. So New York should remain independent. Best case is that every state becomes independent nation. But it might be bit difficult.
 
Only way is that constitution convention fails on 1788. But even then there is high odds that New England becomes unified nation. So New York should remain independent. Best case is that every state becomes independent nation. But it might be bit difficult.

Although some of the colonies are probably fated to unify with others, like Delaware, which was started by Pennsylvanians and probably would join Pennsylvania or Maryland. Vermont's also a good example of that, since it's join New Hampshire, New York, or British Canada in the long run.
 
In a Balkanized USA smaller states are so much chum for the larger ones. There is no way Vermont could remain independent in the face of a New England Confederation (the most likely outcome). British support would be helpful but it is small, little population, and no resources and difficult to support from Canada in the late 1700s. As mentioned Delaware will undoubtedly go (willingly or not) with Pennsylvania or possibly New Jersey. Many scenarios in fiction have New Jersey being taken over by New York or split between New York and Pennsylvania.

OTL there were numerous overlapping claims on the lands between the Appalachians and the Mississippi among the original 13 colonies. In a Balkanized USA, assuming the British don't grab any of this, you'll see these lands being a case of facts on the ground rather than colonial charters - OTL the US government basically nullified all of these claims in favor of federal sovereignty. Lots of ways these lands could end up divided.
 
In a Balkanized USA smaller states are so much chum for the larger ones. There is no way Vermont could remain independent in the face of a New England Confederation (the most likely outcome). British support would be helpful but it is small, little population, and no resources and difficult to support from Canada in the late 1700s. As mentioned Delaware will undoubtedly go (willingly or not) with Pennsylvania or possibly New Jersey. Many scenarios in fiction have New Jersey being taken over by New York or split between New York and Pennsylvania.

OTL there were numerous overlapping claims on the lands between the Appalachians and the Mississippi among the original 13 colonies. In a Balkanized USA, assuming the British don't grab any of this, you'll see these lands being a case of facts on the ground rather than colonial charters - OTL the US government basically nullified all of these claims in favor of federal sovereignty. Lots of ways these lands could end up divided.

New Jersey is well-established, but if the 13 Colonies need to strengthen themselves, is ripe for dividing between New York and Pennsylvania as the land originally was.

A divided USA can only enforce things up until the Appalachian Mountains. Anything beyond that is grounds for either a sovereign state (State of Franklin, say) or British influence, and those sovereign states would likely be snapped up before long by British influence.
 
The British can subsidize and support Tecumseh to a greater extent here, but actually getting enough British forces in to this territory to control it and stem the tide of settlers and the military incursions of the "American" countries is both difficult and pointless. A Balkanized American polity, friendly native tribes that will oppose them and possibly remain independent but dependent on Britain suits the UK quite well, why waste resources on a vast emptiness of no particular value.

While you could see a state of Franklin, it would have a hard time fending off Virginia which has colonial claims there. Not impossible, but perhaps if it had an alliance with Pennsylvania to hold Virginia in check.

FWIW I wonder what would happen to Maryland here - western Maryland could easily go to Pennsylvania, eastern Maryland and the Chesapeake area would be tempting for both Virginia and Pennsylvania.

IMHO you see a New England Confederacy, probably with Vermont, New York with part or all of New Jersey, Pennsylvania with Delaware and western Maryland, Virginia. Not sure about the Carolinas and Georgia how they shake out. Pennsylvania and New York possibly at odds over New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Virginia at odds over eastern Maryland/Chesapeake area.
 
Maybe in a balkanized America the Republic of Vermont survives because no one else is strong enough to take it AND hold it against other forces.

The larger American nations since they can't have Vermont at least decided that no one can have it.

It becomes like a sort of Neutral Zone where diplomacy, spies, and black marketeers thrive.
 
Would we get to keep all the towns from NY and NH that were annexed and then forced to be given back as a condition of statehood? Area and population-wise, NY probably doesn't notice but NH certainly would.

Perhaps without the CT river as a border, something larger arises where modern day White River Junction / Lebanon / Hanover is. I don't recall exactly which towns in NY were part of it, but if we could get as far as the Hudson River then when something like the Champlain Canal happens we're in good shape.
 
Top