AHC surviving Hanseatic league

Valdemar II

Banned
To the Sound trade, there are a solution, if Lübeck-Hamburg can gain control over Saxe-Lauenburg, a canal between the Elbe and Baltic Sea are possible, the hardest part are to keep the Danes from invading and lay wast to the territory and destroy the canal. But if they can do it at a point where Denmark are weak, we may very see Denmark accept status quo, when it grow stronger again.
 
I wonder if the solution is a strong Empire that is interested in exercising overseas power. This isn't quite a Dutch Republic along the Baltic, but a semi-independent Hansa that serves as the arm of the Hapsburg interests might be plausible. And then in the 17th century, there were plans to revive the Hansa and use it to contest dutch control of Baltic commerce...

Edit: Here's the discussion of the "Baltic Design": https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=136647&highlight=Baltic
 
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I wonder if the solution is a strong Empire that is interested in exercising overseas power. This isn't quite a Dutch Republic along the Baltic, but a semi-independent Hansa that serves as the arm of the Hapsburg interests might be plausible. And then in the 17th century, there were plans to revive the Hansa and use it to contest dutch control of Baltic commerce...

Edit: Here's the discussion of the "Baltic Design": https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=136647&highlight=Baltic
Wouldn't they have to contend with the Dutch all the time though? They have a number of bottlenecks to get through.

ED: Ah, read the thread. Glad this post got some more interest in it than when I posted on this topic.
 
What Germany Wanted To Achieve Post WW1 Victory!

Ive heard it said that Germany wanted as part of its WW1 victory plans to establish a grander bigger Hanseatic league, a large customs union, not necessarily with the original members.
 
Stecknitz canal

To the Sound trade, there are a solution, if Lübeck-Hamburg can gain control over Saxe-Lauenburg, a canal between the Elbe and Baltic Sea are possible, the hardest part are to keep the Danes from invading and lay wast to the territory and destroy the canal. But if they can do it at a point where Denmark are weak, we may very see Denmark accept status quo, when it grow stronger again.

Search for Stecknitz canal built between 1392 and 1398. :)
Trouble is the watershed between the river Trave (Luebeck) and the river Elbe (Hamburg). Meaning that water supply for the canal was really difficult. Not to mention that the invention and development of locks was just starting at that time. The canal was really only suitable for barges.
 
I could see it surviving as an organisation in quite the different from until today without all that much change actually. Just like there are (small) corporations around today that hail from the Indian and American Trading Companies of old colonial fame the Hansa could survive as an ordinary business to some extent. It wouldn't be the same however.
 
Alright but... Wasnt the Hanse at the heigh of its power in 15th century, i know the whole hanse cant be united but couldnt, Mecklendberg,Luubek, Hamburg, pommerania all unite, after all arent they within close proximity to each other. We could see a potential baltic power, also maybe Bremen unites, I can see this happening if the Hanse states start to fear the growing power of the Habsburgs and because denmark has the sound toll, the leasers can see that if they united then they may have a chance to defeat Denmark. So i see it as plausable.

Thoughts??

As I said the problem is their short-sightedness. At least seen from today. :)
(Just to give an example. In the 16th century Luebeck did built dedicated warships during the war with Sweden. The "Adler von Lübeck" at that time was the largest warship in Europe (in the world?). After the peace treaty 1570 it was converted into a cargo ship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adler_von_Lübeck)

Combining some rich prosperous Hanse towns with the 2 duchies of Mecklenburg and Pommerania, maybe Saxe-Lauenburg too, would have given them a continuous border plus some manpower to defend it. Not sure if it would have been enough in the coming centuries though.

Problem is that each Hanse town was fiercely defending its own independence. Well, maybe more the already rich merchant families in the town councils were doing that.
And they were quite suspicious of the rulers close to them. Maybe not without reason. I´m quite sure that a Duke of Mecklenburg or Pommerania would have loved to gain possession of a prosperous (Hanse) Baltic port town.

In our time line they didn´t even unite - although they were all Protestant - to defend themselves together in the 30 year war.
It is true that Hamburg was never attacked or besieged in that war. But that happened because Hamburg just spend a lot of money to modernize its fortifications. Starting around 1600 if I remember correctly.
And that was against a perceived Danish threat when the work started.

You would need something truly shocking happening. Something that convinced at least some of them that close cooperation was needed for their survival. Which might then develop over time into a closer federation.

Another problem is geography.
Most similar to your envisioned Baltic power would be the Netherlands?
A relatively small coastal country relying on trade.
The Netherlands though mostly had to defend against one enemy, Habsburg Spain. They could normally count on the neutrality or even help from France or England, both enemies of Spain too. And didn´t face a threat from Northern Germany in the east.

The Hanse Baltic power probably would face several enemies. Denmark for sure would´t like it. Same with Sweden later on. Or Brandenburg in the south. Or the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the east?
I realize most of them don´t yet exist (or aren´t threats) in the 15th century.

But sooner or later you´d need a "great power" close by support you.
The Dutch had the advantage that once they were independent no great power around them was willing to see them conquered by one of their competitors. Seems to me the situation for the Hanse Baltic state would be slightly different. Quite a lot of countries and German principalities would gain something by dividing them up among themselves.
 
I wonder if the solution is a strong Empire that is interested in exercising overseas power. This isn't quite a Dutch Republic along the Baltic, but a semi-independent Hansa that serves as the arm of the Hapsburg interests might be plausible. And then in the 17th century, there were plans to revive the Hansa and use it to contest dutch control of Baltic commerce...

Edit: Here's the discussion of the "Baltic Design": https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=136647&highlight=Baltic

Now that might be something worth exploring!

And just to mention it to Susano. :)
The Hanseatic League towns - while Protestant - didn´t have a problem trading with Catholic Spain. In fact the Dutch-Spanish war suited them just fine, removing the Dutch competition from that trade.
They were quite annoyed by all those Dutch ships intruding on their traditional trading routes, especially in the Baltic Sea and Scandinavia.

Of course a lot depends on the religious fervor of the Catholic Habsburg HRE Emperors...
Wallenstein seems "flexible" enough but were the Habsburgs?

If they were willing to be tolerant I could see quite a few Hanse towns jump at that chance. They had lost quite a lot of trade and influence. And with an Emperor - while powerful - far away and generally leaving them alone...

Add some trade concessions in the "New World"...
There are some precedents.
The Welser and Fugger families financing a trade expedition to India in 1505. Or the Welser family concession in Venezuela (1528).

Don´t forget that their legal status as a free (and independent) Imperial town after all was based on Imperial laws and edicts. Without generally accepted Imperial authority their independence depends on their ability to withstand a siege.
 
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