AHC: Survival of HRE Italy

Onyx

Banned
Thats the whole challenge on it, starts Pre-Frederick Barbarossa or during his reign

Challenge is to have the HRE's territory survive in its Italian areas and remain as a more Germano-Italo Centric than Germanic HRE
 
A PoD even further back than Barbarossa might be needed for that. When he was Emperor, the Italians had already been very unruly for a long time. Best bet is probably an Investiture Controversy PoD, but I'm a bit hazy on that particular period to say for sure.

Barbarossa's problem was that as soon as he crossed the Alps into Italy to quiet down the Italians, his German opponents would start messing around in Germany and vice versa. Quite troublesome, those Alps.
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
A PoD even further back than Barbarossa might be needed for that. When he was Emperor, the Italians had already been very unruly for a long time. Best bet is probably an Investiture Controversy PoD, but I'm a bit hazy on that particular period to say for sure.

Barbarossa's problem was that as soon as he crossed the Alps into Italy to quiet down the Italians, his German opponents would start messing around in Germany and vice versa. Quite troublesome, those Alps.

To be perfectly honest, you're right, have Matilda of Tuscany be less successful in fighting off Emperor Henry IV and crush the Papal faction of the Investiture Controversy and you will have HRE Dominance in Northern Italy. He might also go on to help Alexius I restore Byzantine Rule in the South against the hated Normans.
 
I don't think even as late as Barbarossa's grandson it was doomed, but it would take both military and political success to make it stick.
 
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