How can Operation Market Garden be made to be a success? Can the Western Allies reach Berlin by Christmas if it is a success?
Go!
Go!
AHC: Successful Operation Market Garden
- Thread starter superjames1992
- Start date
With the OTL forces in the battlefield the plan was a recipe for disaster.
One potential POD would be quality check for British trucks - without those faulty engines, their supply system would not have stagnated so much and the remnants of German Fifteenth Army would have been unable to escape.
Now, have the II. SS-Panzerkorps transferred elsewhere in the Western Front before the operation begins due worse overall German situation, and a massive airborne operation combined with XXX. Corps ground offensive could pull it off, even in the awful terrain conditions of Netherlands.
One potential POD would be quality check for British trucks - without those faulty engines, their supply system would not have stagnated so much and the remnants of German Fifteenth Army would have been unable to escape.
Now, have the II. SS-Panzerkorps transferred elsewhere in the Western Front before the operation begins due worse overall German situation, and a massive airborne operation combined with XXX. Corps ground offensive could pull it off, even in the awful terrain conditions of Netherlands.
How can Operation Market Garden be made to be a success? Can the Western Allies reach Berlin by Christmas if it is a success?
Go!
Start it 3 days later when the SS panzerdivision slated to move away from Arnhem by train actually had moved. The division was to be transfered into the reich for reorganisation on September 18 or 19. If that division isnt there Arnhem is unguarded
I'm pretty sure there's no way to salvage Market Garden if we're just talking about making changes on the Allied side. There were just so many things that went wrong starting from the planning phase itself that to rectify them would require a substantially earlier POD.
Weren't a large number of the forces at Arnhem also in the Falaise pocket a month or two beforehand? I seem to remember that even in our timeline whilst they got away a number of them lost most of their equipment fighting their way out and had to be reformed and reorganised. If the pocket is securely shut and the Allies capture something like seven or eight divisions that could have some serious knock-on effects.
With the OTL forces in the battlefield the plan was a recipe for disaster.
With the geography and supply situation it was a recipe for disaster!
Deleted member 9338
Ox and Bucks
It was ashame that the Ox and Bucks were not available to take the Arnhem Bridge.
It was ashame that the Ox and Bucks were not available to take the Arnhem Bridge.
Snake Featherston
Banned
Market Garden is doomed to failure for the same reason all other Allied attempts to win the war in one single sweeping strike failed: too many Germans. Too many open flanks. Too flawed an idea.
Awesome Cook post
WOW! Cook I missed your post the first time. THANK YOU for the post and link this go round. One of the best posts I've read.
Although I did see great posts on the Frisian Islands invasion thread that matched your skillful combination of prose and evidence, sadly for all of us... those posters in against the Frisian invasion menace battled in vain as the weapons of military logic and logistical reality cannot harm ASBs!
Wow, Thanks for the LOL too! I had not thought of the Frisian Islands invasion thread since my divorce started. I needed the real world laugh.
WOW! Cook I missed your post the first time. THANK YOU for the post and link this go round. One of the best posts I've read.
Although I did see great posts on the Frisian Islands invasion thread that matched your skillful combination of prose and evidence, sadly for all of us... those posters in against the Frisian invasion menace battled in vain as the weapons of military logic and logistical reality cannot harm ASBs!
Wow, Thanks for the LOL too! I had not thought of the Frisian Islands invasion thread since my divorce started. I needed the real world laugh.
That's basically the argument Max Hastings puts forward in Armageddon and I have to agree with him. Doing so would have ensured a far quicker German collapse than in OTL, although sadly it probably wouldn't have saved anymore of Europe from the Soviets
teg
Some of the ideas are in Eversley Belfield's “The Coastal Flank and the Opening of Antwerp” which is chapter 8 of “Corps Cammander” by Sir Brian Horrocks and Eversley Belfield. Unfortunately, my copy does not have any notes so it will still need work to get back to primary sources. Horrock's own reflections on pages 71-4 may also be useful.
ps. As is the suggestion of using the aircraft keep for the Airborne Army to transport supplies to XXX Corps on page 57.
ps. As is the suggestion of using the aircraft keep for the Airborne Army to transport supplies to XXX Corps on page 57.
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Snake Featherston
Banned
That requires getting Montgomery to do that, and Monty would never listen to anyone else on such matters.