AHC: Stronger Dutch Navy.

Say that the Netherlands, rather than going pacifist and horribly neglecting their navy during the first half of the twentieth century decides to maintain a force of at least four BBs, four large cruisers, eight smaller cruisers and twenty four destroyers. Plus submarines.
Extra points if you can find a way for this force to includ a few Dreadnoughts and it must be replaced every twenty years and its ships must be fully competitive with the ships of other powers.
 
Say that the Netherlands, rather than going pacifist and horribly neglecting their navy during the first half of the twentieth century decides to maintain a force of at least four BBs, four large cruisers, eight smaller cruisers and twenty four destroyers. Plus submarines.
Extra points if you can find a way for this force to includ a few Dreadnoughts and it must be replaced every twenty years and its ships must be fully competitive with the ships of other powers.
How are they paying for this?
 
How are they paying for this?
Maybe they keep some portions of Belgium in 1830. Alternatively they build a large merchant fleet which carries goods from all over the world not just the Netherlands. Plus once oil gets flowing out of the DEI then you have another source of money for the navy, as well as another reason to defend it.
 
Maybe they keep some portions of Belgium in 1830. Alternatively they build a large merchant fleet which carries goods from all over the world not just the Netherlands. Plus once oil gets flowing out of the DEI then you have another source of money for the navy, as well as another reason to defend it.
Honestly keeping Belgium is a great way to do it since Belgian coal is really accessible. The industrial revolution on the mainland started in Belgium. Because of that. You could have a more industrialised (and therefore richer) Netherlands which could pay for the ships and with that industry could build replacement parts for those ships cheaper.
 

nbcman

Donor
Honestly keeping Belgium is a great way to do it since Belgian coal is really accessible. The industrial revolution on the mainland started in Belgium. Because of that. You could have a more industrialised (and therefore richer) Netherlands which could pay for the ships and with that industry could build replacement parts for those ships cheaper.

But wouldn't having Netherlands extending further south to Limburg or Liege create a situation where the Germans invade them in 1914? I think a German invasion would lead the Netherlands to being bankrupted along with the other European countries during WW1.
 
But wouldn't having Netherlands extending further south to Limburg or Liege create a situation where the Germans invade them in 1914? I think a German invasion would lead the Netherlands to being bankrupted along with the other European countries during WW1.
Maybe. But at least until 1914 they could have the ships for the AHC. They might not last against the U-boats
 

Andre27

Banned
Keeping Belgium as dutch territory requires a point of divergence prior to 1900 though. Boosting dutch naval power to the heights proposed remains a significant challenge simply because of the costs involved and the recession during the 1920-1930.

The most plausible point of divergence seems 1918 following the end of the first world war. OTL there was bad blood between the Netherlands and Belgium because the latter accused the Netherlands of not being neutral due to the Netherlands allowing German forces to withdraw across dutch soil.

OTL Belgium demanded pieces of Dutch territory to be turned over, but the population of said territory pledged loyalty to the dutch monarchy. In the end the Netherlands would provide the funds for a canal between Antwerp and the sea.

WI the situation turns out different. The Netherlands does not allow German forces to cross dutch soil, Belgium refugees bring back stories about dutch hospitality AND the class system within the Belgium military (French speaking officers from Walloon commanding dutch speaking soldiers) drives Flanders into separation from Walloon.

Flanders joins the Netherlands and Walloon joins France. After negotiations the Netherlands take custody of Belgium Congo and its resources.

With a larger coastline and more territory to control the Rpyal dutch Navy may invest in several battle cruisers earlier, possibly this design:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_1047_battlecruiser

Keep in mind that this is merely a brain fart, since ww1 and the interbellum is not my area of expertise i cannot say with a degree of certainty how plausible this scenario is.
 
The stronger 20th Century Dutch Navy floats up (pun intended...) periodically. Perhaps the best bang-for-the-guilder would be more of their excellent submarines.

Subs, some modern destroyers and light cruisers and maybe a couple of light carriers (perhaps they buy USS Langley and HMS Argus at cut rate prices) along with some seaplane tenders.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
The stronger 20th Century Dutch Navy floats up (pun intended...) periodically. Perhaps the best bang-for-the-guilder would be more of their excellent submarines.

Which was actually Dutch doctrine from the death of the 1913 battleship plan up until the outbreak of WWII when the artillerist approach came back with a vengeange making the RNN fight a surface war while they had spend decades preparing for a Submarine war.

This is also the subject of the TL I might finally start writing some day....
 
Actually the Netherlands were not that economically restrained, though its policy was more the reason of the limmited millitary pressence. The Netherlands aroubd 1900 were still one of the bigger economies worldwide, only surpassed by the known big states and eventually on par with states like Austria-Hungary, Brasil and Argentina, all of whom possessed larger military forces, though less economical backing. Most of the Dutch economy was based on world wide acces of trade and less on its domestic industrial capacity. The Dutch East Indies were a major part of the trade empire, simply because it was strategically situated on major traderoutes in Asia and because it had serious wealth in resources, such as oil.
 
Actually the Netherlands were not that economically restrained, though its policy was more the reason of the limmited millitary pressence. The Netherlands aroubd 1900 were still one of the bigger economies worldwide, only surpassed by the known big states and eventually on par with states like Austria-Hungary, Brasil and Argentina, all of whom possessed larger military forces, though less economical backing. Most of the Dutch economy was based on world wide acces of trade and less on its domestic industrial capacity. The Dutch East Indies were a major part of the trade empire, simply because it was strategically situated on major traderoutes in Asia and because it had serious wealth in resources, such as oil.
So with such an economy would a navy a little smaller than A-H be possible by around WWI? A few BBs ACs PCs and lots of smaller DDs? Though I would see the Dutch building a lot of small cruisers like the German Gazelle class do to the need for a worldwide presence.
 
So with such an economy would a navy a little smaller than A-H be possible by around WWI? A few BBs ACs PCs and lots of smaller DDs? Though I would see the Dutch building a lot of small cruisers like the German Gazelle class do to the need for a worldwide presence.


A German style fleet was not in the interest of the Dutch as the goal was too different. Priority was defense of the primary colony, whichb required a dedicated force of defensive units, such as armored ships with smaller torpedo armed vessels and certainly not lots of very small cruisers, as these were more expensive and of lesser use in a defensive role. For trade protection larger more heavily protected and armed cruisers were the first choice, not the smaller German scout cruiser types. Battleships and torpedocraft would have to defend the colony against larger scale operations, while lots and lots of submarines would strike the enemy transports, to frustrate invasion attempts. (The submarine was already a major tool for the Dutch in early 1900, so it should be integrted in the plan as well.) Aircraft when becomming available would be included as well.
 
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